Lao Tze

Your comment on the chart

Comments on this chart

• 

  Psychopathia

  1 oct 12

  Well, at least Halber Mensch by Neubauten... then one by Death in June. Chrome, for example. Nature Unveiled by Current 93. These are just suggestions, you know. Also, if I were to make one about the '80s, I'd definitely include Propaganda! I was young, but in '85 I loved listening to Duel and Live in Pankow... oh, and there's Pankow, Neon. And last but not least, I suggest a little spot for Sinnermen by Not Moving :)

   

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    Lao Tze

    2 oct 12

    Unfortunately, I had to keep everything within a group of 100, I had promised myself. I had been wanting to do something like this for a while, not in the wake of those Rolling Stone-style nonsense (being fundamentally opposed to rankings by principle) but just to include the music I prefer from those years. There's always something left out; I just realized I've forgotten "Urban Gamelan" by 23 Skidoo, unforgivable - but by adding, discarding, and re-adding something, this is what came out.
• 

  extro91

  1 oct 12

  PANKOW UP THE ASS! LET ME BE STAAAALIIINN

   

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    extro91

    1 oct 12

    I'm sorry, but I cannot view or access content from external links. If you provide the text you'd like me to translate, I'd be happy to help!
• 

  proggen_ait94

  1 oct 12

  You also like skin. They say it's ugly, but I actually like the bagpipe drones instead.

   

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    hjhhjij

    1 oct 12

    Ugly? Tze... maybe it's not as well done as some of his work from the '80s, but ugly, not at all.
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  elv

  1 oct 12

  I would reserve a little spot for Horse Rotorvator. Or not?

   

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    elv

    2 oct 12

    Unforgivable is the absence of Horse Rotorvator. Oh yes.
  • 

    Lao Tze

    2 oct 12

    for that matter, it also lacks things like "Meat Is Murder," the first from the Pretenders, "Blizzard Of Ozz," "Moving Pictures," "The Dream Of The Blue Turtles," "Synchronicity"... but in making my choices, I decided that none of that fit in. nor do the Coil, for instance - who are worth more than all those records combined.
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    elv

    2 oct 12

    understood.
• 

  hjhhjij

  1 oct 12

  Very beautiful (I'm not going to waste time unnecessarily questioning the positions). I was planning to listen to The Psychedelic Furs because they inspire me with confidence.

   

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    elv

    1 oct 12

    I believe it is in chronological order.
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    hjhhjij

    1 oct 12

    True :)
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    Lao Tze

    2 oct 12

    the first of the Ps.F., essential.
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  Matteo Tarchi

  2 oct 12

  Beautiful, a great way to respond to those who dismiss the '80s as the decade of plastic pop, Duran Duran, U2, and nothing more. Really annoying prejudices about a fantastic decade, even more so than the '90s... I would have more to add, but I'll do that on my own; this is nice as it is (except for the first position, sorry but I just can't accept Sandinista! up there...)

   

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  Matteo Tarchi

  2 oct 12

  clearly up there not as a position but as an entry in the ranking, partly because 1980 is the last year of the 70s (a stupid clarification, a bit pedantic, you might say) but mainly because I can hardly tolerate that record aside from a few exceptions...

   

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  Matteo Tarchi

  2 oct 12

  meat puppets... do we want to include them? maybe at the expense of Bleach??? just kidding, it's your stuff...

   

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    Lao Tze

    2 oct 12

    I have to tell the truth, at this moment I wouldn't take anything out. Of course the Meat Puppets were in the running, for some strange reason, with the Thin White Rope. And there I unfortunately have to prefer the Spanish cave to both "Huevos" and "MP II," just to name two titles. Also because I already had to leave out the Giant Sand...
• 

  Mr. Money87

  2 oct 12

  I like it, Bella. I don't know some artists and I took notes.

   

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  Belghazi

  2 oct 12

  Black Flag and Talk Talk. I reiterate Death In June. And why not, I would also place Avalon by Roxy Music.

   

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    Lao Tze

    3 oct 12

    And to think that I’ve always preferred "Flesh & Blood" to "Avalon", maybe I’m one of the few. The Roxy maybe not, but I would definitely add "Primitive Guitars" by Manzanera, that one for sure. As for Talk Talk, I wasn't thinking of adding them. I was considering Death In June.
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    Lao Tze

    3 oct 12

    And to think that I’ve always preferred "Flesh & Blood" to "Avalon", maybe I’m one of the few. The Roxy maybe not, but I would definitely add "Primitive Guitars" by Manzanera, that one for sure. As for Talk Talk, I wasn't thinking of adding them. I was considering Death In June.
  • 

    Lao Tze

    3 oct 12

    duplicate, pardon.
• 

  imasoulman

  3 oct 12

  I hope that the omission of Double Nickels On The Dime is due to a connection issue...but in your beloved post-punk album, could there possibly not be a slot for Felt, Josef K, Swell Maps? And across the ocean for Feelies, Polyrock? (Who’s trading?)

   

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    Lao Tze

    3 oct 12

    And no, I definitely need to add the Minutemen, even more so than the Feelies for sure. I'll make some changes; I was already thinking about it.
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    omahaceleb

    3 oct 12

    what beautiful names you come up with. I won't nitpick about the omitted or forgotten names, just that New Order, Bauhaus, then Go Betweens, and a whole cartload of SST records are missing. Otherwise, I agree and embrace you like blood brothers (but are they sorted by preference? Hex Enduction Hour so far back?)
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    imasoulman

    3 oct 12

    I would say (and I hope it’s true) that it’s only due to the chronological order. But have you also become a devotee of the MarkESmithian church, brother Omaha? Well, very well...
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  omahaceleb

  3 oct 12

  And James Chance? Shall we tie him to the guardrail on the Salerno-Reggio Calabria? (Okay, I’ll stop here)

   

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  odradek

  3 oct 12

  Well, it’s obvious that there are some titles that stand out, but those that are included have, in the vast majority, every right to be there. I smiled at the presence of "After The Snow"; I thought I was one of the few still owning that vinyl. I probably wouldn’t have included it, if not for sentiment, like Positive Noise or others from that time. I might have made an effort to fit in the first "A Certain Ratio," though. _ P.S. @omahaceleb: beautiful image, Change on the Salerno-Reggio Calabria :)

   

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  imasoulman

  3 oct 12

  The album is getting more and more interesting, especially with Messer Odradek getting involved, which is quite an honor... that said, it would have obviously been different last week (just as it will surely be tomorrow) but, just going by my gut: Human Switchboard? Stump? That Petrol Emotion (Babble)? Woodentops? And Music for a New Society by John Cale? And a couple of Costello gems (Imperial Bedroom and King of America)? We're missing a bit of America Trad: so let’s throw in Blasters and Los Lobos (How Will the Wolf Survive?), Steve Earle (Copperhead Road), and that timeless wonder of "Blue Guitar" by Peter Case, which edges out his self-titled debut. So, who wants to trade?

   

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    odradek

    4 oct 12

    And who, if not the encyclopedic Imasoulman, could have brought the Stump back to the surface! I truly believed I was one of the few to have their record, "Quirk Out," if I'm not mistaken, which I liked a lot. Thank you for yet another refresh for my brain, Ima.
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  imasoulman

  3 oct 12

  and then we’d just be missing those fifty "black" records... Let’s include at least one, come on: Gil Scott-Heron ("Reflections"). Two, come on: Lee Scratch Perry & Dub Syndicate ("Time Boom X De Devil Dead"). Alright, three: Public Enemy ("It Takes a Nation of Millions...").

   

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    imasoulman

    3 oct 12

    Ah, since those born in 1980 are in it, erase everything and forcefully include Linton Kwesi Johnson - "Bass Culture" (but not among the 100, among the 5...)
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    odradek

    4 oct 12

    Isn't "Sign o' the Times" missing as well? Shouldn't it be, by royal decree, at least among the top 10? Isn't it scientifically proven that attempting to create any sort of ranking on the matter causes, with varying effects depending on the subjects, irreparable psycho-physical damage? So, why, despite denying any interest in the matter, can't we keep our distance from it? Strange creatures that we are.
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  omahaceleb

  3 oct 12

  @odradek, happy to hear from you again, I was honestly laughing too while writing it :)

   

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    odradek

    4 oct 12

    But how did the image come to your mind, Omaha? Do you always cook those little mushroom omelets or is it all a result of your poetic nature?
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  omahaceleb

  3 oct 12

  Happy to read you again, odradek, I was laughing too while writing it :)

   

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  omahaceleb

  3 oct 12

  double comment, maybe too much joy. Soulman, tell him, you who did your national service in Canberra: Died Pretty, The Triffids, Birthday Party. Then, well, a little corner for "Mommy's Little Monster."

   

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    imasoulman

    3 oct 12

    Well, of course, but between the Wallabies and the All-Blacks, I think it needs its own standalone album..
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  omahaceleb

  3 oct 12

  (sign Human Switchboard and Stump, which I don't know)

   

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    imasoulman

    3 oct 12

    good "sign"...(the Stump, I don’t know, very, very particular, a bastard hybrid of early XTC and Pere Ubu; but the Human Switchboard, if I know you even a little, will give you great satisfaction with their updating of the Doors to the sounds of post-punk from Ohio)
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    omahaceleb

    3 oct 12

    records to start with?
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  BARRACUDA BLUE

  3 oct 12

  Congratulations Lao, especially position number 26 is a delight. @imasoulman: very soon you will have a nice surprise in HP.

   

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    imasoulman

    3 oct 12

    Well, who knows what it is, I can't wait. In any case, thank goodness you guys are taking care of it, because my writing has gotten really bad...
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  imasoulman

  3 oct 12

  Well, easy... for HS the only long-distance release is "Who's Landing in My Hangar?" from '81, fortunately recently resurfaced, in what I believe is an "expanded" CD, from the mists of oblivion. For Stump, both the mini "Quirk Out" ('86) and "A Fierce Pancake" from '88 are essential. And if they were to circulate, there's a triple CD that contains everything they recorded, edited and also not.

   

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    imasoulman

    3 oct 12

    it was supposed to be a response for omaha, up there
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    omahaceleb

    4 oct 12

    And I thank you as usual, down here (I'll send you a private message soon, stay tuned)
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  Toni De Tabba

  3 oct 12

  I imagine that for each of these groups, you will know, at most, just one song. Poor idiot.

   

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  hjhhjij

  3 oct 12

  Come on, we’ve got a new fake! Long live Toni De Tabba :D

   

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  Toni De Tabba

  3 oct 12

  Damn... they didn't even include SWANS! And THROBBING GRISTLE! What about Psychedelic Furs and Chameleons UK? It's true what they say, you won't get far just by copy-pasting Scaruffi's lists (unless, of course, among these mongols).

   

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    Lao Tze

    4 oct 12

    the Psychedelic Furs are... ouch, you missed the mark here.
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    Toni De Tabba

    4 oct 12

    Swans and T. Gristle are not having it. Ouch, you missed it twice in a row. In fact, five times: you're also missing Dead Can Dance, Chameleons, and Death In June. All insignificant stuff, right LAPO?
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    Lao Tze

    4 oct 12

    and what the hell, aren’t you going to include them?
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    Toni De Tabba

    4 oct 12

    Usually it's you who puts them there, since you're a green-peacer.
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  Lao Tze

  4 oct 12

  Cowboy Junkies. Whites Off Earth Now + The Trinity Sessions.

   

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    Toni De Tabba

    4 oct 12

    Blablabla
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  korrea

  4 oct 12

  Well, the Smiths, but at least let’s put the Pixies in! (I’m making an exception because I don’t care about the charts, I’d actually remove them from the site).

   

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    Lao Tze

    4 oct 12

    calm down, calm down, because I need to remove something. Given that the Pixies have to be there, someone else will take a step back...
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    elv

    4 oct 12

    If you were to remove Residents and Green River to include Swans and Coil, you would definitely be making the right choice. Right? Well, I tried.
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    Lao Tze

    4 oct 12

    more Coil than Swans, going by taste. hard to leave out Green River, just for their historical importance, the Residents must be included because Ralph has more than just Snakefinger and Tuxedomoon, considering that I couldn't include MX-80, much to my dismay. we could take out something else to make room for Swans, I'm thinking about it.
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    nes

    5 oct 12

    "more the Coil than the Swans, going by taste." more than going by taste, going by ear, by brain, by stomach and entrails, by shit and sperm. God, where the fuck are the Coil???
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    Lao Tze

    5 oct 12

    It's not that the inserted albums are any less essential than any Coil album, so their inclusion would be necessary but not indispensable. And it's true that the ranking - which isn't really a ranking, first of all - is dominated by post-punk/new wave, but those are my genres. So, as long as I don't find a valid reason to remove something else, the Coil won't even be considered.
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    nes

    5 oct 12

    I had written a whole message and it disappeared... oh well: the ranking is yours, tastes are tastes, but I have the right to comment, so: 80s musical artists: U2 yes, Coil no. Bad tastes. No ifs ands or buts. It would have been better if you had said, "I won't include Coil because I don't know them." No one would have found anything strange, and you wouldn't have made a fool of yourself. Instead, saying U2 yes, Coil not even for ideas... It’s true that tastes are tastes, but when someone wants to come across as knowledgeable, prepared, and credible, they should pay attention to what they say.
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    nes

    5 oct 12

    I had written a whole message and it disappeared... oh well: the ranking is yours, tastes are tastes, but I have the right to comment, so: 80s musical artists: U2 yes, Coil no. Bad tastes. No ifs ands or buts. It would have been better if you had said, "I won't include Coil because I don't know them." No one would have found anything strange, and you wouldn't have made a fool of yourself. Instead, saying U2 yes, Coil not even for ideas... It’s true that tastes are tastes, but when someone wants to come across as knowledgeable, prepared, and credible, they should pay attention to what they say.
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    Lao Tze

    5 oct 12

    what you’re saying is nonsense, as usual. "shit tastes"? no problem. on the other hand, it says "as far as I'm concerned" up there, just read. but your reasons stop there. you want to assume that I don't know Coil. I mean, is it necessary not to know Coil in order to not include them in this ranking? it seems that Coil is the only fundamental band missing. in the presence of more fundamental bands, I think I have to make a choice. and I make it according to my tastes. if they’re shit to you, tough luck. we’ll survive.
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    nes

    5 oct 12

    "On the other hand, it says 'as far as I'm concerned' up there, just read." Yes, in fact, I'm talking about YOUR tastes... "it seems that the Coil are the only fundamental group missing." No, it’s just that when talking about 80s music, the Coil are the first thing that comes to my mind. And when it comes to art and music, the Coil of the 80s is the only thing that has existed in the last 40 years. Leaving the Coil out of an 80s ranking from my point of view is like leaving Zappa out of a ranking of guitarists. De gustibus, I repeat. And I repeat: "The U2, yes, the Coil, not even in the slightest," this has to do with having a bit questionable tastes (in case "of shit" offended you).
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    Lao Tze

    5 oct 12

    "When it comes to art and music, the coils of the 80s are the only thing that has existed in the last 40 years"... haven't we exaggerated a bit? No offense.
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    korrea

    5 oct 12

    Curious choice of the Meat Puppets album, and also of the Sonic Youth one. What criteria did you adopt?
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    nes

    5 oct 12

    "When it comes to art and music, the coils of the 80s are the only thing that has existed in the last 40 years"... haven't we stretched it a bit? No offense.
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    Lao Tze

    5 oct 12

    @korrea. preference. not necessarily the best.
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    nes

    5 oct 12

    As far as I'm concerned, the last time art touched music was 40 years ago, and it touched the Coils. Here it is. In Italian. Did I go overboard? And what the hell do I care? I've read plenty of people praising the Sex Pistols with a 5. We all say nonsense (I say much smaller nonsense compared to Pistols fans, by the way).
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    Lao Tze

    5 oct 12

    The Coil 40 years ago...?
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    korrea

    5 oct 12

    But enough with these damn Coil, I just noticed that Minor Threat is missing: oversight? Anyway, if it’s a matter of preference, just tell me you prefer the Smiths to U2, come on, tell me!
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    nes

    5 oct 12

    Yes, 30, it's already been established for a while since the first record came out, and anyway, yes, the years are 30. Exactly still for a little while. Korrea, enough with the coils? Enough??? I mean, damn, do you have any idea how much crap alternative pseudo-indie music is praised on this site? Do you have any idea how much garbage is passed off as avant-garde on this site? You've managed to make me curse, congratulations, that's not easy. You deserve an increase in respect.
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    Lao Tze

    5 oct 12

    and I lament the absences of Giant Sand, Golden Palominos, and New Order. Serious ones, because they fall into my genres. The Smiths were on the list, but I didn't include them because I skipped a name, and I haven't had time to add them back yet. In principle, I prefer them to U2, of course, but for me U2 WERE great, then they ended in '87. Like the Smiths, practically...
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    korrea

    5 oct 12

    It was just to say that it's clear you like Coil and that Lao Tze doesn't like them/doesn't know them (I doubt it). That they are essential, avant-garde, better than the alternative pseudo-indie crap that many - myself included - praise on this site, no one wants to question that. Happy to have made you curse. Now, explain this thing about Minor Threat :)
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    nes

    5 oct 12

    Alright, let's do a great job here: best artist of the 80s – except for the underground, which is the most interesting thing about the 80s – so the ranking is perfect or almost. (Sure, U2 always sound a bit off to me, but oh well.)
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    korrea

    5 oct 12

    Well, if you prefer them that way... After all, it's understandable that you like Zen Arcade and not Minor Threat; otherwise you would have included New Day Rising. And Buzz or Howl by the Minutemen, not Double Nickels (that's what I would have done).
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    elv

    5 oct 12

    Lao, no Coil no Swans yes Einstürzende Neubauten yes Residents... tell me you at least include Throbbing Gristle: in the '80s they released records and compilations continuing the good work done in the '70s. Tell me you at least take out the Phish: what the hell are they for?
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    nes

    5 oct 12

    What do you want me to say about Minor Threat??? I talk to you about seminal industrial and you bring up hardcore??? Are you trying to make me curse again, tell me the truth. Anyway, I remember a record by I don’t know who called "And Here Come the Wolves" (in English) that had a cover that referenced the homonymous Minor Threat. And it was pretty terrible... the one by the others, who weren’t Pennywise but... damn I don’t remember wait eh... god damn it seriously I can’t remember, famous eh, trendy punk bands from the mid/late '90s.
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    nes

    5 oct 12

    Ah, here were the ranci. Now that I think about it, I didn't even like that record. What do you want to know instead about Minor Threat? How well do I know them? Not much. How much do I like them? A little and not at all, but it's punk in general that doesn't drive me crazy, so why? Why do you ask me? You want to make me... But damn it.
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    elv

    5 oct 12

    At least Death in June, corbezzoli. And Dead Can Dance. And My Bloody Valentine.
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    nes

    5 oct 12

    So: the ranci would be the rancid, and if you want to call your Punk group "Gli Aranci" from now on you owe me the rights.
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    korrea

    5 oct 12

    No Nes, I was telling Lao, I should have specified and I regret not having done so. Damn, you’re so picky. Anyway, it was Rancid, and the album was And Out Come The Wolves, and of course, they were among the idols of my earliest teenage years. I don’t deny them, what can I do?
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    nes

    5 oct 12

    If I see Death in June, Current, and I don't see Coil, I’ll contact the hakerZ turki and I'll send the whole site to hell. I don't give a damn if the responsibility of such an act is only Lao's. Well, yes, maybe it would also be my responsibility, actually...
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    korrea

    5 oct 12

    GIVE ME TIME TO RESPOND CHRIST ahahahah
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    nes

    5 oct 12

    I'll give you all the time you want, but if I find out you’re playing in a band called "gli aranci," I’ll give you a good beating. Unless you pay, of course.
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    korrea

    5 oct 12

    By the way, it's all a nice bombardment of emails. Soon Soru will come and annoy me at home (guess which email I have).
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    hjhhjij

    5 oct 12

    Lao, maybe remove the Sugarcubes and put on those damn Coil, so nes stops bothering us (just kidding nes :).
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    Don_Pollo

    5 oct 12

    Hi, who are the coil?
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    hjhhjij

    5 oct 12

    A group that I think everyone likes :D
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    korrea

    5 oct 12

    It's the abbreviation of Lacuna Coil, right?
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    nes

    5 oct 12

    don pollo just made me piss my pants 8 who are you, a jurix fake?) and hjhj: no way: Lao: put whatever you want anyway I don't give a fuck. hjhj, yeah now I'm talking to you hjhh and not hjhj... I get it, but you're the one who chooses some pretty trashy names, anyway hjhh: I'm a group that has to please everyone. if you still don't like it, it's because you're lagging behind. I'm particularly flexible on certain issues, I know.
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    nes

    5 oct 12

    And then korrea: ,.,òlk No, nothing, I just wanted to send you another email.
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    korrea

    5 oct 12

    and Nes is right. If you don't like it, there's something wrong.
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    korrea

    5 oct 12

    KORREA BRINGS THE FIG TO A RANKING OF LAO TZE
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    hjhhjij

    5 oct 12

    Just to inform you, I really like Coil :) and also the one in the link.
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    nes

    5 oct 12

    "It’s the abbreviation of Lacuna Coil, isn’t it?" korrea, you know those hulking, ugly, smelly, huge metalheads who listen to crap music and if you tell them their music is poor, they get pissed off (not the average metalheads, I mean those who really look rough, the slightly crazy ones who've been inside for motorcycle theft and such...) well, you know the types (blessed are you, I still believe they only exist in the minds of loser metalheads, but never mind). Now you try to put coil and lac... (I can’t even bring myself to write it in the same sentence) and I become big, fat, smelly, hulking and I won’t come to hit you: I’ll come to cuddle you with a boar brush. Maxi size, extra hard bristles. You try it once and you never go back.
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    hjhhjij

    5 oct 12

    But I like Einstürzende more (and it has nothing to do with it, I know).
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    hjhhjij

    5 oct 12

    But I like Einstürzende more (and it has nothing to do with it, I know).
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    nes

    5 oct 12

    Even though the word "behind" will become incredibly captivating for you...
  • 

    elv

    5 oct 12

    Think about it, nes, there are the Phish, the Green River, the Rem, the U2, and the Coil are missing (and Swans, Throbbing Gristle, Death in June, Dead Can Dance). What a thing.
  • 

    nes

    5 oct 12

    hjhh: you said nothing... anyway, no. Coil and that’s it. I'm a fucking radical fascist extremist when it comes to Coil (in other words, I'm a fanZ and you can stop listening to me whenever you want if you haven't already).
  • 

    hjhhjij

    5 oct 12

    elv ma against the Einsturzende that you have, sorry?
  • 

    korrea

    5 oct 12

    Hey Nes, don't you think Morrissey looks so cute in this video? <3
  • 

    hjhhjij

    5 oct 12

    Never mind nes, I do the same with Van der Graaf and Einsturzende :)
  • 

    nes

    5 oct 12

    As for the ranking, I stick to my opinion: there are people that Lao should and could discover, in my view. He likes to do what he’s heard all the time, but... it's not that Lao doesn’t understand anything; and as you pointed out, there’s too much stuff missing (not for me - yes, I get it’s okay for me too - but for those like Lao who like to say "this is a great group because they were founded here," "these others are great because they influenced over there") compared to stuff that's merely "passable" (then again, 100 names are many; I understand there will also be less "fika" stuff, but I find certain absences harder to comprehend).
  • 

    elv

    5 oct 12

    Sorry, hjhh, but who told you I have something against the Ainstiurzéndé? Lao included them, he did well. He included the Residents, he did a bit less well. And yet he didn't include the Coil and the Swans. De gustibus to a great extent. But also, well.
  • 

    elv

    5 oct 12

    and also Throbbing Gristle
  • 

    korrea

    5 oct 12

    Damn, how much I hate Throbbing Gristle.
  • 

    elv

    5 oct 12

    And don't you hate the Residents?
  • 

    korrea

    5 oct 12

    I only have Meet the Residents, and I actually hate it. But maybe in five years I’ll love it, huh.
  • 

    korrea

    5 oct 12

    I'm listening to it again now and it seems awesome to me. At sixteen, I hated Sonic Youth.
  • 

    hjhhjij

    5 oct 12

    Sorry elv, I must have misunderstood one of your comments above :) The Residents are definitely cool, absolutely. Good job korri for giving them a fresh look.
  • 

    Don_Pollo

    5 oct 12

    Throbbing Gristle are Sasha Grey's favorite band. Whoever hates them is gay.
  • 

    hjhhjij

    5 oct 12

    I don't know, but I can remedy that.
  • 

    Lao Tze

    5 oct 12

    I'm trying to sort this out. @ELV. I included My Bloody Valentine from the start. And damn, Jesus & Mary Chain yes and MBV no...? That was too much, objectively speaking. The fact that the Residents released that big album in '80 influences my take; personally, my favorite is "Eskimo," but it couldn't fit in. @Nes, I don't think there's much that's just "passable." All things considered, aside from exclusions (and anyway, I reiterate, I left out stuff that I liked TOO), it seems to me that all of these are important records in their genres. For some, essential; for others, less so, but nearly all are 5 potential records.
  • 

    elv

    5 oct 12

    You did well, even though I would have included You Made Me Realise (Isn't Anything is still a great album).
• 

  Toni De Tabba

  5 oct 12

  The Green River are worth less than a saw when compared to Swans or early Coil. It shows how much you understand about music...

   

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    Lao Tze

    5 oct 12

    The Green River have nothing to do with either Swans or Coil. To compare them to Swans and Coil, you have to not understand anything about music.
• 

  Toni De Tabba

  5 oct 12

  But who talked about genres? I talked about the historical and musical validity of the bands. Don't turn things around if you have no arguments and if you've never heard a damn thing.

   

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    Lao Tze

    5 oct 12

    "historical validity": wow... if that's not historical validity, I don't know what is for a group that emerged in Seattle in '83 (I'll spell it out: EIGHTY-THREE) with their first album in '85 (I'll spell it out: EIGHTY-FIVE). damn it, you can say anything about Green River: they suck, they’re monotonous, they can't play, they’re worth nothing in conclusion, but the last thing you can take away from them is "historical validity." then, for those who argue that Coil are essential, I say that comparing them to Green River doesn’t mean a damn thing.
  • 

    nes

    5 oct 12

    coil-scatology: 1984... So what? What does the year have to do with it? "Those who argue that Coil are essential," There's really not much to debate, you know... Do yourself a favor: listen to them.
  • 

    Lao Tze

    5 oct 12

    If you were born in the '80s, it's very likely that you've listened to them before. There's not much to discuss, is there? But no one intended to do that, don't worry.
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    nes

    5 oct 12

    "If you were born in the '80s, it's quite likely that you've listened to them before. So what? I asked you what the publication year has to do with anything; as usual, you don't answer me and you say 'I'm older than you'... It's not that there's nothing to discuss today, with you it's never possible to discuss anything. You read what someone hasn't written, you don't read what they do write, you give answers to non-existent questions, and you never answer half a question. PS: if you had listened to them, they'd be on the charts. Because I’d bet my balls: you would like them, maybe not all, but you would like them."
  • 

    Lao Tze

    5 oct 12

    If you understood anything, even by chance, you would have also understood that I was responding to the "gentleman" up here, who was talking about the "historical validity" of the Green River. Obviously, you don’t understand, you joined the conversation later.
  • 

    nes

    5 oct 12

    No, I don't understand. The Green River album has historical significance because it's from '85; fine, but Scatology, I'll tell you, is from the year before. So? But above all, what the hell does the year of production have to do with the historical validity of an album? At most, it's what comes after that proves that the work in question was important... right?
  • 

    Toni De Tabba

    5 oct 12

    Don't worry about it. The 50-year-old guy doesn’t understand a thing, and by copying and copying, his ignorance comes to light. Obviously, even that electronic turntable of Scaruffi managed to understand that Swans and Coi have a historical-musical significance 100 times greater than Green River. But even if that weren't the case... how the hell can you include Modern English (you know them?) and NOT Swans! Our Lapo Tze is a riot.
  • 

    Lao Tze

    5 oct 12

    but you have a fixation with Scaruffi, how boring. I certainly am a 50-year-old gentleman who understands nothing about music and can't grasp that "Swans and Coi (Coi???) have held a historical-musical significance 100 times greater than Green River," but you as a fake are utterly dull. creativity is needed, your gig isn’t for everyone.
  • 

    Lao Tze

    5 oct 12

    @Nes, what can I say... Green River are the quintessential seminal band. Basically, everything that came out of Seattle after '87 is a child, and if it's not a legitimate child, it will be an illegitimate one, but still a child of an EP called "Come On Down." I won’t add anything else. There will be bands that are "artistically 100 times superior," but it's hard (impossible?) to deny that a lot has emerged from that little record. "What the hell does the year of production have to do with the historical validity of an album?" Well, it matters quite a bit.
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    elv

    5 oct 12

    Bravo, if the Green River are the seminal band par excellence, then the Wipers are also missing from this list. Kurt said: "Is This Real? Yes it is. The Wipers released maybe four or five albums. The first two were totally classic and influenced The Melvins and all the other punk rock bands. They're one of the bands I tried to assimilate. Their songs were so good. Greg Sage was pretty much the romantic, quiet, visionary kind of guy. What more can I say about them? They started Seattle grunge rock in Portland, 1977." What do we make of that?
  • 

    elv

    5 oct 12

    (and also Black Flag and Melvins, but whatever...)
  • 

    Lao Tze

    6 oct 12

    For me, grunge has never existed as a genre; grunge is in the spirit, and it was already in the spirit even before the Wipers by Greg Sage, who weren’t doing what the textbooks would call grunge but simply "punk." In my opinion, Green River were doing something that went beyond the bands that came out at the end of the '70s; without inventing anything, they were already ahead, and you can hear it in the sound. They sound like Soundgarden before Soundgarden, like Screaming Trees before Screaming Trees did similar things... it's hard to explain. If we then talk about grunge as an attitude, for me, the roots of grunge lie not in the Wipers or Green River, but in the '60s.
  • 

    Toni De Tabba

    6 oct 12

    I may be a boring clone and all that you think. You, on the other hand, are a smoky piece of shit who writes just to fill the countless dead times (but can you find a job?). Do you know why you piss off more than one person? Because, even though you haven’t written a ton of reviews, you are extremely rhetorical, pompous, pretentious, predictable, and lacking personality. Your know-it-all attitude (well highlighted in your introduction) gives off the idea of a first-rate nerd, a nerd with delusions of grandeur who really hides the nature of a small, small loser. And when you start writing about politics and society, you bring out the worst clichés.
  • 

    Toni De Tabba

    6 oct 12

    Back to talking about music: what the hell do I care if those Green River guys released a "proto-grunge" album in '87? As someone suggested: go listen to "My War" by Black Flag if you want to understand WHERE both the Seattle sound and stoner rock come from. But the most ridiculous thing, I repeat, is seeing useless bands like Modern English or M. Set featured while genuine geniuses like Swans or Coil are overlooked (but I could also add the aforementioned DCD, Death in June, Chameleons, or T. Jesus & the Jerks, Robin L. Crutchfield, or Alan Vega).
  • 

    Lao Tze

    6 oct 12

    "Your know-it-all attitude (well highlighted in the presentation)" - by the way, my presentation mocks the far more rhetorical, pompous, and pompous presentation of a well-known (former?) user of Debaser (a user who I know is quite liked by Nes, by the way) and is a very ironic personal adaptation, nothing more. A fake should be sharp enough to understand that. But as I repeat, you are quite dull. Rather, it's frontal attacks like yours that suggest frustration to me, in a big way. "I write about politics and society"? That's a nice one. But who do you think I am, I'm not Ferruccio De Bortoli.
  • 

    Lao Tze

    6 oct 12

    Returning to talk about music: the album in question by Green River is from '85, not '87. I understand you've never listened to them, but at least reading is possible. "WHERE both the sound of Seattle and stoner music are born." And who ever mentioned stoner? I talked about Soundgarden and Screaming Trees. You're out of line. As for the fact that the two you mentioned are useless bands... well, the Monochrome Set a useless band? That's at least a bold claim. Modern English? Just for the sound of the synthesizer, Modern English can definitely have a place. I don’t see that as a scandal, quite the contrary.
  • 

    nes

    6 oct 12

    Listen a bit, De Bortoli: "what the hell does the year of production have to do with the historical validity of an album?" Well, it has a decent amount to do with it. Yes, it matters, but if the discussion is "this album is more seminal than that one" (between two genres that don’t have a damn thing to do with each other, but whatever...) and you say: "no, no, you’re mistaken: the one I'm talking about is from '85"; we can overlook the fact that the other album in question is from a year before, but it’s harder to overlook another point: is it enough to release an album quickly for it to be seminal? I don’t think so. Then you explained yourself. The Coil remain the best thing to come out of the '80s. And anyway, let’s stop (not you, lao) going on about how the early Coil were the best; the Coil improved year after year, the best works are at the end. That the early ones were already foundational albums of incredible depth is another matter.
  • 

    elv

    6 oct 12

    For you, the Wipers, the Melvins, and Black Flag may not have been seminal. But they were. You didn't include a single one. But you did include Bleach. Then for some strange reason, which I think is: "I, Lao Tze, like these guys and that's it," you pass off Green River as seminal to an entire movement that, to you, didn't exist. MAH
  • 

    Lao Tze

    6 oct 12

    "of two genres that have nothing to do with each other." but think about it, I had already pointed this out to ToniDeMamma about 20 comments ago. good morning. it’s a bit late, but good morning anyway. "The Coil remain the best thing to come out of the 80s" - but no, thanks. or rather, as a personal opinion it’s fine, but as a fact it doesn’t make sense.
  • 

    Toni De Tabba

    6 oct 12

    Ah, well! Now the presentation has turned into a parody of someone else's, and as a result, we don't even need to consider it. I don't take nonsense like "I have a wife" or "I'm a great merchant" seriously (it's clear you've never left the house), but I fully understand that you're a Santoro-dependent and a bit of an old bum. Me "lousy"? Maybe. You, in detail, are a clown who isn't even funny.
  • 

    Toni De Tabba

    6 oct 12

    Returning to music: the Green River, whom I know better than you, released their EP in 1985. Black Flag released "My War" (a hundred times better than the one you mentioned) in 1984. A year earlier and with much clearer ideas. Educate yourself through the records you listen to, and not through the Ondarock forum, before shooting nonsense. Regarding the blending and/or comparison between bands belonging to different genres: you are the first to make that choice. What the hell does the Boss have to do with Joy Division? Nothing. If M.Set and M.English had merits, then I can't even imagine what those of the Swans were. When things are unknown, dear LAPO, it's better to remain silent. It avoids looking like an idiot.
  • 

    nes

    6 oct 12

    eighteen not twenty, I read and understand, you on the other hand continue not to understand and derail the conversation, I who talk about "what do we care about '84, and then I tell you "in the end you explained yourself". you who can’t manage to stay quiet and come out with an unnecessary "I already said that," and a "it doesn't make sense"; that, after managing to say (as others have pointed out to you) that you find the Green River seminal for a genre that doesn't exist for you, you could have spared yourself. Every time you open your mouth you say something stupid, and when you say something right you immediately rush to say three more useless nonsense, to not ruin your average... Respect!
  • 

    Lao Tze

    6 oct 12

    ELV. You may be right about the Black Flag, but as I said before, I had to make choices, and during that period I had already included too many things (not that they are any less important), especially considering that I didn't want to do just a review of punk/new wave. If I had left out the X or the Gun Club, I think there would have been complaints about that too – even more so. The same goes for the Melvins, but also for the Flipper, just to name a few. I'm not passing off Green River as seminal; others have done that before me, with good reason, and above all, I’ve never talked about "movement" but about "genre." And those are two different things.
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    Lao Tze

    6 oct 12

    Toni, you're just a boring and vulgar clone. These are the premises; you can't expect to set up a serious discussion. After the blunder about the Green River, you're now trying to recover but it's too late. Moreover, you want to compare two things that aren't comparable ("My War" with the GR EP?) clinging to the criterion by which the ranking is made. In fact (out of place here too), it says "best musical artist of the 80s," not "best hardcore of the 80s." And then, what should I respond to someone who considers M.Set a meritless band... you are unworthy of any response.
  • 

    Toni De Tabba

    6 oct 12

    I don't claim to set up any serious discussion, because there simply aren't the premises. You are ignorant and arrogant, as well as a little liar who keeps collecting embarrassing moments while desperately trying to "turn the tables" to save your ass in a corner. The only two functions of my interventions are a) to make fun of you b) to show those who esteem you that you are just an ignorant goat. Now: you still bring up the story of incompatible genres to avoid addressing the Black Flag issue and you come to tell me: << Aò but the Green River didn't sound like Henry Rollins and Greg Ginn (if you even know who they are) >>. And so what? We were discussing the parentage of grunge, so it becomes clear that "My War" holds much more significance than the nice but not exceptional debut of the G. River.
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    Toni De Tabba

    6 oct 12

    The Monochrome Set were a decent band but nothing exceptional. It's certain that considering them superior to the Swans means being a genuine handicapped person. Get over it. PS: "Sandinista" as the best album of the '80s is one of those nonsense statements that only a poor ignorant named LAPO TZE could spew out.
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    Lao Tze

    6 oct 12

    "to show those who appreciate you that you're just an ignorant goat." Given that "those who appreciate me" (laughs) couldn't give a damn about what you say, in the meantime, you're making yourself slightly ridiculous. You shoot the nonsense and then retract your hand. First, the Monochrome Set were a meritless group, now "a decent band but nothing exceptional." EH. Do you know what you're saying, in your opinion? I don't need to add anything about the Black Flag, I've already explained it to ELV. p.s. "Sandinista" best album of the '80s? The list is in chronological order. After a week, even a handicapped person like me would understand.
  • 

    Toni De Tabba

    6 oct 12

    Some people are already coming to terms with the fact that you are a goat and that you would do better writing about horse racing than music, so my work is starting to prove useful. But, I repeat, if I'm still here it's mainly because I enjoy messing with you. Discussion M. Set: they don't say much to me and, compared to other acts of the period, they are honestly pathetic. I definitely prefer one of their songs to one that plays on the radio. Not understanding what I've written about this shows clear mental handicaps. Discussion rankings: I don't care what criteria a handicapped person uses to place "Sandinista" in there. If it’s in first place, it probably means that this handicapped person thinks it’s better even than "Closer" (which is from the same year and is worth two million times the penultimate output of those little black guys, Clash [up to "London Calling" they indeed made quality music]).
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    Lao Tze

    6 oct 12

    "Ranking speech: I’m not going to look at the criteria that a handicapped person uses to place Sandinista at the top. If it’s in first place, it probably means that the handicapped person in question believes it’s even better than "Closer." Yes, it probably means that you, after a week, still haven't realized that THE LIST IS IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER, YEAR BY YEAR (in uppercase for the visually impaired). "But, I repeat, if I'm still here it's mainly because I enjoy messing with you" - more than anything, after a slip-up like that, you make me feel sorry. Bye, it’s been a pleasure."
  • 

    Toni De Tabba

    7 oct 12

    I repeat: I couldn't care less about how you arranged the bands and, honestly, I wouldn't have wasted a nanosecond trying to understand what criteria an idiot like you used to place those names. The fact is that, being a good ignorant, you left out Swans, Coil, Death In June, Dead Can Dance, Black Flag, and who knows how many other greats from the eighties, while including useless formations like Modern English (of which you probably know nothing). Fool.
• 

  Don_Pollo

  5 oct 12

  I don't see Iron Maiden.

   

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    Lao Tze

    5 oct 12

    not me either, to be honest. now I look more closely.
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    Toni De Tabba

    6 oct 12

    Oh sure... the albums with Di Anno were pure garbage. Long live hipster-egalitarianism! PS: I've always thought that anyone who didn't love AT LEAST one subgenre of metal was gay. You prove it, Lapo. Oh don’t take it personally! Your ignorance is worse.
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    Lao Tze

    6 oct 12

    "I've always thought that anyone who didn't love AT LEAST one subgenre of metal was gay." What a theory. It makes perfect sense.
  • 

    Toni De Tabba

    6 oct 12

    In your case, it fits perfectly.
• 

  imasoulman

  5 oct 12

  to avoid doing wrong to anyone: as the Vate Odradek says, the Regie Patenti (converted into Edict) compel me to include among the top five: "Skylarking." Anyone who fails to do so will be punished with fines and corporal penalties, with no possibility of appeal to the TNAS. To considerably lessen the severity of the punishment, it will be recommended to alternately listen to three other works that one might wish to include with a spot among the 100: Nomeansno - "Wrong"; Neville Brothers - "Yellow Moon"; Church - "The Blurred Crusade."

   

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    Lao Tze

    5 oct 12

    "I've just listened to 'Yellow Moon' again. Fate. Great album. I have it right here on my desk. And I have a nagging feeling that, sooner or later (but better late than never), we'll take these 100 to 150..."
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    BARRACUDA BLUE

    5 oct 12

    Skylarking is a discovery with every listen, a harmonic richness worthy of a podium. I too would have added something to the 100: Bill Nelson-Quit Dreaming and get on the Beam. Cardiacs-A Little Man and a House and the Whole World Window. Thirteen Moons-Origins. The '80s, so often ridiculed, still hide treasures locked away... and an unfindable key!
  • 

    imasoulman

    5 oct 12

    porcoilmondo, but are the Thirteen Moons, ultra-typical Swedish crystalline pop, what I’ve been looking for all my life? Who has this record? Who? whaaaaat? The mutant pop is great so I’ll throw you one of my must-haves in the genre: Mark Tucker (I wonder if you at least know him, because this, forget the Stump...)
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    BARRACUDA BLUE

    6 oct 12

    It's them, I was listening to them today and believe me, they strike at the heart. Origins is still downloadable on Rapidshare. Mark Tucker is completely new to me...
• 

  korrea

  5 oct 12

  Uff (for Peter Gabriel)

   

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    hjhhjij

    5 oct 12

    Whhaaat?
• 

  imasoulman

  5 oct 12

  it would also be missing – and that’s serious – the figurine of a certain gentleman with a blonde bob, depicted nude like a mammalofecus, with only an enormous turtle shell covering him, intent on aiming at a toy truck. He played for a team in Liverpool, but he was soon disqualified for (excessive) doping, even if it was for something that doesn’t greatly improve performance. (I’m not trading this figurine because it’s already been licked...)

   

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  elv

  9 oct 12

  And the Beat Happening, where are they?!

   

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    Lao Tze

    20 oct 12

    I don’t think it’s necessary to replace them with anyone present here. I’m sorry. Not even the Phish, whom you apparently consider useless.
  • 

    elv

    20 oct 12

    veeeery useless
  • 

    Lao Tze

    20 oct 12

    up to "The Story of the Ghost" excluded, a big bunch. then, if not useless, at least dispensable.
  • 

    elv

    20 oct 12

    Aside from everything, it's not a bad ranking, quite the contrary. There are names that I wholeheartedly agree with and others that, due to personal tastes, come nowhere near my preferences. Etc.
• 

  hjhhjij

  20 oct 12

  You know who you should remove, in my opinion? The Sugarcubes, and maybe you could throw in the Coil.

   

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    Lao Tze

    2 nov 12

    these 100 will soon be raised to 120.
• 

  Darkeve

  9 nov 12

  The Flaming Lips made some great records in the '80s...

   

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    Lao Tze

    21 nov 12

    you will find them in the '90s review, not that those from the current decade are looked down upon, but there were priorities...
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  bobbybrown

  11 nov 12

  A shit ranking with a musically ridiculous band at the top. You're someone who listens a lot but doesn't understand a damn thing. No offense.

   

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    Lao Tze

    12 nov 12

    Yes. Apart from the fact that this is not a ranking, that no one is at the top because the list is in chronological order, and that calling the Clash "a musically ridiculous band" requires a level of expertise I don't possess, aside from this, your contribution is very helpful.
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    true folkster

    24 dec 12

    "You are someone who listens a lot, but doesn't understand a damn thing. No offense" ---> the problem is that he doesn't even listen.
• 

  hjhhjij

  10 jan 13

  Here's another great list that I had shamefully forgotten :) But you've got to include the Swans, come on, it's a crime not to see them in such a long, varied, and complete ranking.

   

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    Lao Tze

    10 jan 13

    Thank you, as for me, I have already said why I personally don't place the Swans above others; for sure they, and not just them, will be in a ranking by genre – when I have the time to make it. The same goes for the Black Flag and others.
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    hjhhjij

    10 jan 13

    Sorry, but I've literally been obsessed with the Swans these past few months, so I'm being a pain :)
• 

  Luotto

  4 mar 15

  A Miles Davis would fit perfectly (Aura, Tutu, Decoy, etc.)

   

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    Lao Tze

    4 mar 15

    'Aura' for sure, when I revisit the list.