Zvezdoliki

Your comment on the chart

Comments on this chart

• 

  Slay

  5 dec 15

  Beautiful! But are you J&R?

   

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    Zvezdoliki

    6 dec 15

    Thank you. No, I'm not J&R, but I think I understand who you're referring to; it's the one who defined Stravinsky in a “bombastic” way. I saw him when I did my review.
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  luludia

  17 dec 15

  you forgot Claudio Baglioni...

   

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    Zvezdoliki

    17 dec 15

    Ahahah... it's not over yet.
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  hjhhjij

  22 dec 15

  However, it would be really nice if suddenly, at some point, between a Handel and a Varese, Baglioni popped up :D

   

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    Zvezdoliki

    22 dec 15

    Indeed, it would be a bit disorienting, who knows...
  • 

    Zvezdoliki

    22 dec 15

    I would almost put an Allevi there...
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    hjhhjij

    22 dec 15

    No Allevi acts like a classical musician, it would be clear the mockery, Baglioni would really be a plot twist. Even better, Loredana Bertè!
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    hjhhjij

    22 dec 15

    For the (ex) hotness factor, if nothing else.
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    hjhhjij

    22 dec 15

    Back to being serious for a moment... Isn't Wagner there?
  • 

    Zvezdoliki

    22 dec 15

    Yes, veeeeery ex...
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    hjhhjij

    22 dec 15

    So ex that I'm increasingly convinced she died around 1985 and that what we're seeing is, I don't know, a goblin dressed as Bertè. A goblin that's aging badly, by the way.
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    Zvezdoliki

    22 dec 15

    I never looked into it in depth; when it happens, I'll see about incorporating it.
  • 

    hjhhjij

    22 dec 15

    Instead, he's one of those I know at least somewhat well, come on. I've listened to the Tetralogy in its entirety, and it's a continuous ecstasy.
  • 

    Zvezdoliki

    22 dec 15

    I only know a few fragments and I've never listened to it in full.
  • 

    hjhhjij

    22 dec 15

    Well, it's practically four works that form a tetralogy; it's a demanding listen, mainly because it's LONG. It's fine in smaller doses as well. Also, because if you listen to it all (I mean, if you listen to all 4 in a row, you'll find yourself crazy, naked, and with a beard like Methuselah, deliriously walking on your hands), listening to it all makes you really want to invade countries. "Gasa" so much.
  • 

    Zvezdoliki

    22 dec 15

    Listening to it in full means taking half a day and maybe a little more... Let's say that I can easily spend 2-3 hours if I like the piece; when it's sung, as in this case, I would prefer, if possible, to also have the libretto.
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    hjhhjij

    22 dec 15

    And rightly so.
  • 

    j&r

    31 oct 16

    Listening to the tetralogy in a day is neither good nor right...it's tough even just to blast through Gotterdammerung in a single day...as far as I'm concerned, I really love the prologue, that is Rheingold, rich in themes and just hard enough...I don't like Die Walküre at all except for the first act...Siegfried has a superb first act, a boring second act, and a beautiful third act (even if stylistically it has nothing to do with the first two) and finally there's Gotterdammerung, or The Twilight of the Gods, the most beautiful work of Wagner for me and one of the best in the history of lyrical music...Gotterdammerung is Wagner's peak, 4 and a half hours of truly sublime music...Okay, maybe it’s not the pure Wagner of Rheingold anymore, maybe it has become a mega French Grand Opéra cleverly disguised by the German language, maybe it’s a bit noisy, blaring, and even gaudy (like all Grand Opéras), but it reaches unprecedented peaks of power...one in particular is the Funeral March, music that makes your wrists tremble and pulverizes legions and legions of Scandinavian metalheads...
• 

  j&r

  31 oct 16

  great ranking... beautiful... the top 6 are also my favorites... I can only say that I can't conceive Beethoven below Brahms... but it's a matter of taste... I don't see Mozart's Sinfonia Concertante k.364 (which is one of his highest masterpieces), nor do I see the string quintet k.516 (perhaps the most beautiful chamber piece ever), and finally the clarinet quintet k.581, which is one of my favorite pieces of my life.

   

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    Zvezdoliki

    31 oct 16

    Yes! You have a point, quite significant oversights! I will immediately address them, especially since I agree with what you say. In my "defense," I can say that practically no composer has all the works I prefer listed. The order of authors is purely subjective (even for pure affection), and for me, the top 10 could easily all share the top podium. I've never been able to make rankings because each one (even those who come after) has its own peculiarities, and my choice of which album to listen to depends on the moment. How can one say whether Webern is better than Beethoven or vice versa? At least, I can't do it.
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  j&r

  18 dec 16

  increasingly complete...if I may suggest, I recommend 1) Beethoven's CORAL FANTASY; 2) Massenet's Werther (a stunning opera); and 3) Les Troyens by Hector Berlioz...assuming you enjoy opera.

   

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    j&r

    18 dec 16

    also the masses of Haydn and The Seasons by Haydn
  • 

    Zvezdoliki

    23 dec 16

    Thank you very much J&R, suggestions are always welcome, especially when they come from passionate people (as you seem to be). I know "La fantasia corale" by B. and it's indeed one of the (still many) oversights in this ranking. While I’m not familiar with either Massenet's or Berlioz's works, I have always struggled a bit with operas (though over time I have come to appreciate them more and more, except for those by Mozart and a few others that I have always loved even when I listened to very few of them). Unfortunately, regarding Haydn's titles, I am lacking and have never listened to them; I know, it's a serious omission that I must remedy. Thanks again.
• 

  Pinhead

  28 jan 17

  How lovely, and also useful for someone ignorant like me, like "shopping tips."

   

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    Zvezdoliki

    1 feb 17

    Thank you, I'm glad if it can help you get to know "classical" better.
• 

  Alfredo

  2 feb 17

  I absolutely agree on Ginastera. I do notice the absence of Paul Hindemith, though... :)

   

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    Zvezdoliki

    3 feb 17

    Only on Ginastera? (Just kidding). In fact, I only know "Ludus tonalis" by Paul Hindemith (which I still find splendid and will include right away). Anyway, the ranking is still incomplete (sometimes it's just forgetfulness and other times it's due to a lack of knowledge about the composer or the pieces).
  • 

    Alfredo

    3 feb 17

    No, I meant to highlight a not very famous author, at least not among the enthusiasts. I must be honest; I listen to 99% of the music produced in the 20th century. From time to time, I listen to Beethoven and Mozart, that's true, but generally, I prefer more recent music. I also have a certain fondness for some American composers of the last century: Copland, Schuman, Sessions, etc.
  • 

    Alfredo

    3 feb 17

    Without forgetting our country: Malipiero (one of my absolute favorites), Petrassi, Casella, etc.
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    Zvezdoliki

    5 feb 17

    Of Malipiero, I only know the "Sinfonia del mare" (which I quite like, very close to the impressionism of Debussy). I have never really listened to anything by Petrassi, and Casella is already on the list. Among the Italians of the 20th century, I have a preference for Scelsi, Respighi, Berio, and Maderna. Meanwhile, I care very little for American composers; I only like some things by Copland (especially "Quiet City"), but he is not among my favorites.
  • 

    Alfredo

    5 feb 17

    If you haven't already, try listening to Schuman (neoclassicism) and Sessions; he started with a neoclassical style and later moved towards serial writing. You should listen to the Concerto for Orchestra from 1981, winner of the Pulitzer Prize. For Malipiero, I recommend his symphonies, piano concertos, and quartets. From Petrassi, check out the Partita for orchestra in his youthful (neoclassical) style; he too embraced modernism, developing a unique style of his own. Copland was very capable, but in his "commercial" period compositions, there might be just a bit too much rhetoric. His later modernist compositions (2/3 in total) are much more interesting.
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    Zvezdoliki

    10 feb 17

    Thank you, Alfredo, I will take note and listen. I agree with the assessment (in general) on Copland (but, personally, I extend it to many "classical" composers from America).
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  enbar77

  8 feb 17

  Dear Zvezdoliki, congratulations! At this point, you could refine the ranking by also indicating the most exceptional performances. It is here, in my opinion, that one demonstrates having a noble ear :-) The beauty of the compositions is undeniable beyond personal preferences, but I would be curious, since you are very knowledgeable, to learn about and share with you the preferences regarding the performers of certain pieces.

   

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    Zvezdoliki

    10 feb 17

    Thank you Enbar77, it was something I had thought about, but the space to write next to the author is very limited. Anyway, if you're interested you can ask me (little by little) and I will let you know work by work. In the listens (shhh), I always include the versions I prefer of a work.
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  enbar77

  8 feb 17

  I would like to suggest to you, just because they are missing, Chopin's Andante Spianato Op. 22 and Ballade in C minor Op. 23, Schubert's Moments musicaux, Bach's English Suite No. 2 BW807, and Shostakovich's Symphony No. 7 "Leningrad."

   

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    Zvezdoliki

    10 feb 17

    I agree with Chopin's Op. 23, less so with the 22, but I'm not a big fan of the pianist, although I recognize his greatness and there are a few things I really like. As for Schubert, Bach (not just the 2nd), and Shostakovich, I absolutely include those right away! (some oversights among the various). Also, I prefer the other Bruckner pieces I've included over the 8th.
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  enbar77

  8 feb 17

  Also Bruckner's Symphony No. 8

   

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  enbar77

  12 feb 17

  Thank you for getting back to me, Zvezdoliki. I wanted to ask you which pianists you find most representative in their performances of Chopin, apart from Maurizio Pollini and Martha Argerich. You can also point out particularly significant versions.

   

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    Zvezdoliki

    13 feb 17

    Well, the 2 names you mentioned are among my favorites. For me, Arthur Rubinstein is the best interpreter of Chopin (along with Cortot, the only thing is that mono recordings are my limitation). Others of note that I’ve had the chance to hear are Arrau, Michelangeli, Pogorelich.
  • 

    enbar77

    13 feb 17

    Thank you, Zvezdoliki. I haven't listened to any versions of Cortot. I know those precious ones by Rubinstein, although his latest recordings show a few minor flaws. To tell the truth, I find Benedetti Michelangeli's "celestial misanthropy" quite intimidating, and I’m not familiar with Pogorelich's performances, although I've heard wonderful things about him. I really love Ashkenazy and Barenboim, even though just as Cziffra is to Liszt, Pollini is to Chopin. Thank you,
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  enbar77

  12 feb 17

  I would be curious to know who, for you, has performed the Hungarian Rhapsodies the best. Mainly to see if it matches my favorite interpreter. Also, shape the previous question for our good Franz. I’ll preface this by saying that I’m not a fan of Lang Lang :-)

   

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    enbar77

    12 feb 17

    Thank you very much.
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    Zvezdoliki

    13 feb 17

    For me, Cziffra is Liszt, even though unfortunately he recorded 15 of the 19 rhapsodies written by the composer. I don't know Lang Lang well, but I strongly doubt he can reach Cziffra (at least in Liszt). You're welcome.
  • 

    enbar77

    13 feb 17

    If you haven't listened to them yet, I would like to recommend Michele Campanella's performances of the rhapsodies. I wonder how Lang Lang can be so well regarded. In my opinion, his performances are "noisy," too heavy, a bit like Emperor Joseph joked about Mozart's music: "too many notes." Furthermore, I feel I must also mention Jorge Bolet. Everything else "can" be boring. Thank you very much, and I think I’ll bother you a few more times :-)
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    Zvezdoliki

    18 feb 17

    No, I had heard good things about it, but I have never had the chance to listen to Campanella; I liked something by Bolet, but I never explored it further (but I will have the opportunity to). Thank you very much for the suggestions, which I always welcome with pleasure, especially when given by passionate people, as you seem to be. Thanks again. Oh, I almost forgot, I agree on Lang Lang, even though, as I said, I don’t know him very well, but the effect I had listening to him is a bit what you describe. Also, your "annoyances" are very welcome.
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    enbar77

    18 feb 17

    Thank you so much! :-)
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  noveccentrico

  3 mar 17

  A beautiful ranking. I've noticed that among these lovely names there's also that of Sciarrino. What strikes you, in particular, about the composer's aesthetics? (I’ll lay my cards on the table: I'm not a huge admirer of his).

   

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    Zvezdoliki

    19 mar 17

    Sciarrino interests me in certain works I've heard for his sound/silence approach, and a kind of "immobility" of sound that can be heard in some of his most successful pieces (like in one I haven't included, which is "Un'immagine di Arpocrate"). Perhaps it's ranked a bit too high, but as I wrote, it's not final yet and is still undergoing "adjustments."
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    noveccentrico

    20 mar 17

    No, it's stronger than me: "An Image of Harpocrates" seems like a mash-up of Ligeti, Bartok, Feldman, Cage, and the parody of the contemporary music concert from the film "Le Vacanze intelligenti." It seems there are some texts, I'm not sure how self-celebratory they are, but I need to resolve this dilemma that partly mortifies me: have I fallen into the limbo of prejudice? I don't recognize any aesthetics in it, except for that of taking here and there.
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    Zvezdoliki

    14 apr 17

    That there are continuous references to the musicians you mention in the work is very true; you probably perceive it as more parodic than I do.
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  noveccentrico

  3 mar 17

  P.S. It’s such a well-thought-out and honest ranking that I can’t help but notice the absence of Charles Ives. Should we take his place instead of Sciarrino? :D

   

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    Zvezdoliki

    19 mar 17

    Here, for example, Ives is an oversight (but I will update immediately, just not in place of Sciarrino...)
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  Alfredo

  3 mar 17

  I've never listened to Sciarrino, but from what I've read about him (in various forums/specialized sites), he doesn't seem to be overly loved by the public...

   

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    Alfredo

    3 mar 17

    Anyway, I will take care of it as soon as possible.
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    noveccentrico

    4 mar 17

    I have my own opinion on Sciarrino, perhaps too harsh, but it all stems from the Surian (text of Music History), where he, although dismissed in the middle of a paragraph, gets mentioned, while Giacinto Scelsi does not. Honestly, I find Sciarrino's aesthetics to be at times parodic: Cage, Scelsi, mannerisms, and the soprano who, as Jagger dubbed in Abruzzese, "makes it cool." Not to mention "Efebo con Radio," where Cage, with Radio Music, had already said everything in this sense.
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    Alfredo

    4 mar 17

    I chose is another one I have never explored, honestly. But weren’t there some scandals about this composer? Like that some of his music wasn’t really his (or something like that), could it be?
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    noveccentrico

    4 mar 17

    Scelsi had a collective that transcribed his ideas and, perhaps - and I don't exclude it - also added something. A practice that often happens today and is called "production." Everything occurred, however, due to his not optimal psycho-physical conditions.
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    noveccentrico

    4 mar 17

    For example, even Bach would hide to glean insights from Buxtehude (by the way, I believe he's also missing from the rankings) and "drew" quite a bit from the secular repertoire (including the Italian one). Furthermore, some studies (to be taken with a grain of salt) have shown that some of his compositions might have been written by his wife (including the Goldberg Variations, which - indeed - have something extremely feminine that I had always associated with an unappreciated sensitivity of Giovanni Sebastiano).
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    Alfredo

    4 mar 17

    Not to mention the Luchesi case for Mozart :D
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    Zvezdoliki

    19 mar 17

    Buxtehude is lacking for me since I've only had the chance to listen to a few pieces (which I found extremely interesting); I really should dive deeper into his work. Regarding historical revisionism about Bach or Mozart or anyone else, I take everything with a grain of salt, as there is no definitive evidence. Even in certain things that you refer to as "feminine," why couldn't it be that Bach himself drew inspiration from musical ideas of his wife to then compose his own work (this happens as well, for example, in "Die Musikalische Opfer," which is entirely based on a musical theme from the King of Prussia).
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    noveccentrico

    20 mar 17

    But in fact, I'm fine with it. There are countless compositions of secular music that Bach used as b.c. In my Music History 2 exam, I stated that Bach represented a sort of avant-garde sampling of the hip-hop school of thought, but my commission of aging aristocrats did not accept my provocation, depriving me of honors. I insisted that every artistic form that has a constitutional practice (rap has it) deserves to be told and analyzed, even daring to make more or less bold comparisons. I won't even tell you what happened when the topic of Scelsi came up (they totally boycotted him), but simply because he didn't use his music for propaganda, not because he had the collective.
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    Zvezdoliki

    14 apr 17

    Compared to you, I am just a simple enthusiast; I don't have a formal musical education. The comparison, made to old teachers, might indeed be bold, but it is certainly an interesting perspective. I should mention that I am quite unfamiliar with hip hop/rap (although years ago I happened to listen to an album that I didn't dislike, but I can't recall the name of the group now). I haven't quite understood about Scelsi...
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  Lauretta

  16 apr 17

  Beautiful ranking, but there’s no rock.

   

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    Zvezdoliki

    16 apr 17

    Thank you. For that matter, there's also a lack of blues, jazz, soul, rap, etc.;)
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    Lauretta

    16 apr 17

    Right, I completely forgot about jazz etc. But it really seems nice, with these names that I mostly know just by hearsay. I know a few pieces by about ten of them, but too little to say "I know this one."
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  Lauretta

  16 apr 17

  Is it true that Puccini said about Stravinsky's music: crazy stuff...?

   

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    Zvezdoliki

    16 apr 17

    I know they knew each other, but I can't tell you about this statement from Puccini.
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    Lauretta

    16 apr 17

    I heard it, even if I don’t remember when or where, thinking about it makes sense because we made completely different kinds of music, Stravinsky represented the avant-garde (I believe) while Puccini represented opera in the tradition. A couple of Puccini's arias really manage to move me, and "Lucia e le stelle" ... and another one too. Then there's the wonderful Rhapsody in Blue, they played Rachmaninoff in the movie Shine, that little piece is very moving. Well, it seems to me that’s enough, actually, Beethoven was great too, I know several of his works, the best seems to be the Ode to Joy from the Ninth Symphony, but also Romance, Clair de Lune, Für Elise ... Bye
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    Zvezdoliki

    16 apr 17

    True, they are two different musicians, but what I know for sure is that Igor appreciated Puccini's music. Yes, Beethoven was good :) I assure you that the best things are also others; the 9th is a superb symphony from the 1st to the last movement (of course "The Ode" is the most famous of the movements). There are also other sublime level piano sonatas on par if not superior to "Moonlight" (as you will have noticed from my ranking). Bye.
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    Lauretta

    17 apr 17

    Can you write a couple of titles of these piano sonatas equal to or above: moonlight? And if you feel like it, maybe also a couple of titles of symphonies or rhapsodies at the level of the one in blue by Gershwin, which I find sublime.
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    Lauretta

    17 apr 17

    I thought of that one I hadn't written, it's the famous "Nessun dorma," but also "Habanera" by Bizet or "Casta diva," by... I can't remember, "Una furtiva lacrima..." Am I asking too much if I invite you to write a couple more? Bye.
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    Zvezdoliki

    17 apr 17

    There are undoubtedly valuable sonatas by Beethoven for me: Op. 13 "Pathétique", Op. 31 No. 2 "The Tempest", Op. 53 "Waldstein", Op. 57 "Appassionata", Op. 106 "Hammerklavier". A rhapsody that I really love, but with a completely different atmosphere, is the "Rapsodie Espagnole" by Ravel. Symphonies, always by Ludvig van, there's the 7th or any one among Brahms' 4 (in particular, I still prefer the 1st or the 4th), but there are plenty of symphonies. Then I imagine you might ask me about opera arias that I appreciate (aside from the fact that for me an opera should be listened to in its entirety), the first two that come to mind are: "Madama Butterfly" (I think it’s "un dì vedremo", but there are so many sublime parts in this opera) and from "Die Zauberflöte" by Mozart, the super famous "aaa AaA AAA" (I don't remember the title, but again there’s a lot of high-level musical material) ;). Bye.
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    Lauretta

    17 apr 17

    Thank you. As soon as I can, I will listen to them all.
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    Zvezdoliki

    27 apr 17

    You're welcome.
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  Dan Erre

  2 may 17

  I highly recommend Beethoven's last three piano sonatas, op. 109, 110, and 111 (the latter consisting of just two movements), in the versions by Arrau or Benedetti Michelangeli (especially for the 111).

   

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    Zvezdoliki

    3 may 17

    Indeed, they are three genuine pianistic masterpieces, but I took the liberty of pointing out those that I believe remain a bit more accessible to a listener accustomed to the "moonlight." I liked Arrau, while I'm not very fond of Michelangeli's sonatas, though I admit I've only heard a few and not the 111. Personally, I prefer Kempff's interpretations overall.
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    Dan Erre

    3 may 17

    Ah, here we are. Indeed, you were right. The "sphinx-like" Beethoven of the 106, 109, 110, and 111 goes beyond himself. However, I find the 106 quite challenging, while the others I understand with ease. Perhaps it’s thanks to an old issue of "Amadeus" with a listening guide... As for Benedetti Michelangeli, I wouldn't know what to say. I'm not knowledgeable enough to nitpick.
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    Zvezdoliki

    23 may 17

    Of course, I'm not an expert either; it's just a matter of approach and interpretation. Kempff is even less technical compared to Michelangeli (and others), but I really enjoy his Beethoven.
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  Almotasim

  12 jun 17

  Beautiful ranking. Bach, for me, deserves a little bit more. Luigi Nono, no. Stravinsky is already rock. But Liszt? Okay at 19, got it.

   

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