JohannesUlver

DeRank ™: 4,27 • DeAge™ : 6173 days

Love
Best Unclassifiable artist of the moment
E' una classifica dei miei miti, assolutamente personale. Chi si offende girasse a largo, please. NB: le posizioni in classifica non fanno molto testo; non intendo dire, ad esempio, che chi è al 3° posto vale di più di chi è al 5°, tanto per intenderci. Le "x" segnalano quelli che sono riuscito a vedere dal vivo. Purtroppo delle caselle sono destinate a rimanere inevitabilmente vuote. Ps: mi limiterò ad elencare artisti musicali. A proposito: volevo aggiungere anche Gianni Nepi ma nell'elenco degli artisti non c'è! Rimediate a questa imperdonabile mancanza!!! Stesso dicasi per Shel Shapiro e Robert Posner!
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Comments on this chart
  • Emerson
    Emerson
    21 dec 10
    Pete Townshend 50th behind Springsteen, Rhodes and Branduardi? ABOMINATION!
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    21 dec 10
    Ah ah ah... good thing I wrote the notice!
     
  • Emerson
    Emerson
    21 dec 10
    Sorry, I hadn't read it! Anyway, I'm really trying hard to understand who Andrea Fumagalli is. Fumagalli Carulli? Or Brambilla Fumagalli, a.k.a. Aldo "Dracula" Baglio?
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    21 dec 10
    Ah ah... ;) it's Andy Fumagalli from Bluvertigo: I can't help it, I like him too much, and I've reserved the bottom of the ranking for him, or rather, the list!
     
  • madamedubarry
    madamedubarry
    22 dec 10
    SPLENDID ranking. Bathory and Simon Le Bon, Nick Rhodes, Fiumani, and Lemmy, all together. This, gentlemen, means having a free mind once again! A bow.
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    22 dec 10
    Too kind! Thank you.
     
  • Felo
    Felo
    5 jan 11
    Andy from Bluvertigo :D LOL It seems excessive to me.
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    7 jan 11
    Yes, I believe so too :)
     
  • stonecoldcrazy
    stonecoldcrazy
    16 jan 11
    Very, veeery nice and varied ranking, I'm glad to see K.K. and Glenn on it, the only thing missing is the metal god... maybe you could put him in instead of Fumagalli! ;D
     
  • GustavoTanz
    GustavoTanz
    18 jan 11
    Andy is someone who takes no nonsense, no doubts about it!
     
  • Emerson
    Emerson
    26 feb 11
    Billy MacKenzie great!
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    11 mar 11
    ranking that gives me goosebumps (and balls)
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    12 mar 11
    Ah ah... good thing I was the "bimbominkia." At least try to be original, otherwise I'll charge you for copyright fees.
     
  • Jack Donney
    Jack Donney
    10 apr 11
    Are you referring to Gianni Nepi, the singer from Piombino?
     
  • Jack Donney
    Jack Donney
    10 apr 11
    I mean the singer of Dark Quarterer...?
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    12 apr 11
    Exactly, dear Jack!
     
  • Jack Donney
    Jack Donney
    12 apr 11
    Ah! Cool! Several years ago, he was my sister's singing teacher... I only know him by sight. I've seen him perform several times. Very good. I think the Dark Quarterer are more famous in Germany than in Italy... how do you know them? Are you also from the Piombino-Valdicornia-Livorno-Tuscan y area?
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    12 apr 11
    No, I'm from Campania, but I assure you that they are very well known in Italy. The DQ are credited with being among the fathers of our local metal. <--- check out this video from their early days. Gianni's performance is raw, authentic, and captivating. They are truly fantastic!
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    12 apr 11
    For heaven's sake, it feels terrible but that's also part of its charm!
     
  • Jack Donney
    Jack Donney
    12 apr 11
    The Nipa with the hair...!! Nipa is the drummer (Paolo Ninci)... he’s a neighbor of my girlfriend :D. Nice video, I had never seen it before... they’re good, I’ve seen them play many times while hanging around their school and rehearsal rooms. Sometimes I’ve even talked to them (with Nepi and Nipa). Metal isn’t exactly my favorite genre, so I’ve never followed them much. I only know them because everyone in Piombino knows them, especially those who play. I knew they were doing well in Germany, but I didn’t think they were among the fathers of Italian metal... it can only make me happy!
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    22 apr 11
    ...among the top five, two members of Queen and at number one that fucking whore, that slutty jerk Mercury...atrocious ranking...nightmare!!
     
    • JOHNDOE
      7 jan 20
      piece of shit, I'll choke you with the lines of the staff!
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    22 apr 11
    I understand musical criticism, but what do sexual orientations have to do with it? Even Tchaikovsky was quite the promiscuous one, yet I’ve never heard anyone tear him apart just for that. Musical critiques are welcome, but for everything else... Anyway, dear friend, you had already commented on this ranking, yet it still attracted you. What’s all this fervor about? Is Freddie turning you on?
     
  • Slay
    Slay
    22 apr 11
    He prefers the New Jersey cowboy, the one who sings: “Hey, girl, your daddy's home
    he's gone and left you all alone
    I've got a bad desire
    I'm on fire." And he mocks Mercury, who is musically 150 levels above him.
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    22 apr 11
    ..no, Freddie gives me such a nervous feeling that it's really impossible to describe it in words..it's like a violent allergic reaction..gaudy, pompous, flamboyantly commercial (in this sense puttana baldracca), kitsch, in short a sideshow phenomenon that has nothing to do with music..his voice doesn't fit at all with rock music (blues, because that's the true and only origin of all rock music)..the great voices of rock are Tom Waits, Charlie Patton, Captain Beefheart, Tim Buckley, Van Morrison..Freddie instead, like Bono, is a tenoretto, with a voice too light to be a true tenor...in short, there's an intrinsic bad taste in Queen and in Freddie..
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    22 apr 11
    Tchaikovsky was gay, but musically he was a cheap whore... he is definitely the most obsequious, pompous, pathetic, and sentimental musician in the history of classical music... however, he wrote memorable pieces... see the Violin Concerto, Piano Concerto No. 1, Symphony No. 5, and Symphony No. 6 "Pathetique"... anyway, I'm not crazy about Tchaikovsky, on the contrary... I go wild with joy for the great LUDWIG VAN...
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    22 apr 11
    Bruce Springsteen plays simple R&R, R&B... if you don't like his music, I don't see why you should worship Creedence Clearwater Revival (lauded on this site)... Queen creates a terrible mess by throwing in, without any sensitivity or taste, elements that they would like to be part of the operatic tradition... bananas!!!... it makes me laugh!!... the music of Queen is 150 layers below the modest but sincere music of the bullock driver... the music of Queen is a tremendous abomination, it is everything that art should not be...
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    22 apr 11
    ...true art is timeless, it is not fashion...the queens come across as terribly dated and products of their time, fashionable like Madonna or Michael Jackson...the album Nebraska by the Boss sounds today like it did back then...his music is modest just like the blues...so is the blues awful??...it may be modest but it is genuine, sincere, and reaches the heart...and then even Van Gogh's painting (bovaro barbone) was modest, indeed very modest...always praise to Ludovico van...
     
  • hjhhjij
    hjhhjij
    22 apr 11
    Well, personally I love both Queen and Springsteen, as well as Ludovico Van (to a greater extent) ;) it's all a matter of taste (between Queen and Bruce S., the latter is clearly something else).
     
  • Slay
    Slay
    22 apr 11
    The Creedence know how to play and Fogerty knows how to sing, the Queen knows how to play and Mercury knows how to sing. They may or may not please you, but they know their craft. The cattleman can't write, can't sing, can't play. He's not worth a darn thing, he represents nothing. He is just a comic book from the record companies for poor fools. The syllogism between Springsteen and the blues is pathetic and blasphemous. Let alone that with Van Gogh, what are you injecting?
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    22 apr 11
    The music of Queen is this, is that, is an abomination, is a freak show phenomenon, is everything art should not be...FOR YOU. "You like Springsteen? Alright, no problem" (to quote Bluvertigo). I like Springsteen too and I think that the music of Queen, for the most part, is nothing short of fantastic, pompous yes, but just the right amount. Don't complain because on this site there are people who worship CCR and trash Springsteen; there are also a lot of people here who think like you about Queen, so you're in good company. We don't agree at all when it comes to great Rock singers. I think that among those named, there isn’t a single one in the top ten. I find Freddie to be an extraordinary singer: to compare him to Bono is madness, not because Bono sings terribly (even though I don't like him at all) but because, unlike Bono, he has shown a much more versatile vocality.
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    22 apr 11
    If I told you that the music of Springsteen or that of Beethoven has an "intrinsic bad taste," would you stop listening to them? I believe not. You will then understand that I respect your opinion (even though I don't respect the arguments or the way you support and express it) but that I completely disagree with it, on the contrary...
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    22 apr 11
    ..but who the hell are you to claim with certainty that Springsteen can't write, can't sing, can't play.. doesn’t represent anything???.. what the hell are you saying, friend.. what do the Creedence even represent.. cheap radio tunes.. but fuck off and listen to some classical music that opens up those damn heads..
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    22 apr 11
    And I don't believe at all that Queen are just fashionable children of their time. An album like "A Night At The Opera" is still extremely valid and holds up very well against the test of time even after 36 years. Springsteen has also done valid things, but he has done just as many that are closely tied to specific periods: Born in The USA is an album full of valid songs but also ones that sound uniquely and damnably 80s.
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    22 apr 11
    Anyway, sorry if I take the liberty, but you come off as ridiculously contradictory: "who the hell are you to claim with certainty that Springsteen can't write, can't sing, can't play... represents nothing???" And who are you to make the same claims about Freddie and Queen, as if they were facts? It's not the same for everyone. You’re criticizing Slay and don’t realize you’re doing the same thing? Come on…
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    22 apr 11
    And has classical music opened these horizons for you? Is this the result?
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    22 apr 11
    Born in the USA is a colossal steaming pile of crap... you can't defend the indefensible... however, The Wild, The Innocent & The E Street Shuffle is a superb album in every respect... all that nonsense about not being able to sing, write, or play... bewildered.
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    22 apr 11
    I also like "The Wild...". Great album.
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    22 apr 11
    "Stunned" where did you learn that? In some sonata by Beethoven? I should listen to classical music too then...
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    22 apr 11
    ..listening to tons of classical music, you notice and understand who, in rock music, introduces elements of classical or operatic music with wisdom and tact and who instead does so in a completely clumsy and abominable way.. the Queen are part of the second group..zero class
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    22 apr 11
    ..I don’t want to be rude and I don’t want to offend anyone either.. classical music isn’t for old people, it’s an authentic blast.. an awesome blast.. the pure and immense power isn’t in rock, it’s in classical..
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    22 apr 11
    Class zero for you. Just like the Beatles have class zero for you. Or Elvis has class zero for you. There are also people who love classical music but still love those same groups. Don't worry, you haven't understood anything more than the others; these are your tastes, legitimate but just tastes. Don't strain yourself: no one holds the truth.
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    22 apr 11
    "Classical music is not for old people" = there's no doubt about it.
     
  • Slay
    Slay
    22 apr 11
    You listen to classical music, but so can a 3-month-old baby. That doesn't make you an expert (and it shows). Songs made with a couple of chords and then a nice Booooorn in the USA, that's what you like, and that’s your trademark. And then Fogerty and Mercury have tone, vocal range, versatility, power. They sing with their voices, with full voice tones. They don't gargle like the cowhand.
     
  • Slay
    Slay
    22 apr 11
    "And we went down to the river
    And we jumped into the river
    Oh we ran down to the river
    Then I got Mary pregnant
    And, buddy, that was all she wrote to me
    And for my nineteenth birthday, I received
    A work booklet and a wedding dress."
     
  • Slay
    Slay
    22 apr 11
    Guys, this is a real songwriter!
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    22 apr 11
    :) I like the Boss but I'm still starting to laugh :D
     
  • Slay
    Slay
    22 apr 11
    "Wendy, let me in, I want to be your friend
    I want to protect your dreams and your visions
    Cross your legs on these velvet seats
    And grab my engines with your hands"
     
  • Slay
    Slay
    22 apr 11
    For the record, it is not taken from: "Metalmeccanico e parrucchiera in un turbine di sesso e politica" by Lina Wertmuller, but from Born to Run by the renowned.
     
  • stonecoldcrazy
    stonecoldcrazy
    22 apr 11
    Even 2 Queen in the top 5 and God Freddie in first place, I mean... I love you! XD In the end, everyone has their own tastes; J&R may know a lot about classical, but I've gobbled up rock, and yet Queen2 makes me drool every time I listen to it and it remains solidly in my top 5.
     
  • stonecoldcrazy
    stonecoldcrazy
    22 apr 11
    Greetings to everyone, and don’t beat each other up over these things! :D
     
  • flagelloalieno
    flagelloalieno
    22 apr 11
    I would like to break a small lance, even though I'm not a "fan," in favor of Springsteen and Mercury.....TRAC
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    23 apr 11
    ..I repeat: "born in the usa is a colossal steaming pile of crap.. you can't defend the indefensible.... however, the wild the innocent and the e street shuffle is a superb album from every point of view.. not to mention he can't sing, he can't write, he can't play.... stunned".... "You listen to classical music, but a 3-month-old baby can do that too. That doesn't make you an expert (and it shows)".. but what the hell do you know??????... thank God I understand classical music very well and I feel it deeply in my spirit, it regenerates me with every listen, for me it's an infinite and pure source of new life, and I certainly don't have to prove to you whether I understand it or not.. buffoon!!... go listen to radio gu gu radio ga ga.. we are the champions my friends..
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    23 apr 11
    ..and if you want to read great texts worthy of your level, you shouldn't look for them in the realm of pop music; rather, read Ungaretti, Montale, Leopardi, Foscolo, Dante, Pascoli, Quasimodo...
     
  • Slay
    Slay
    23 apr 11
    But what do you know about what I read and listen to? I evaluate what you write, a lot of nonsense. And stop insulting, insults are the preferred means of those who have never grown up.
     
  • stonecoldcrazy
    stonecoldcrazy
    23 apr 11
    @Slay: why did you reveal the translation of the lyrics to The River??? You destroyed a myth for me! And here I was always singing it in the shower, without knowing the words... and I thought it was such a cool song! :(
     
  • stonecoldcrazy
    stonecoldcrazy
    23 apr 11
    *figa
     
  • Felo
    Felo
    23 apr 11
    Yes, you've broken my balls. For one comment from May, I have to deal with all these emails.
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    23 apr 11
    @FELO: if you comment on the rankings, unfortunately, that's how it works! It seems to be a curse from Andy Fumagalli who didn't appreciate your comment :). @j&r: you always resort to insults. Is that how classical music regenerates you, professor? For God’s sake, stop making a fool of yourself with these outdated ideas of a clear division between high culture and low culture; you look ridiculous. Among what was labeled as "light music" in the 20th century, there is also a lot of art and poetry worthy of the best classical music. NOT EVERYTHING, let’s be clear, there’s also a ton of garbage, just as there is a lot of garbage in "classical" music: just because a piece has 30 minutes of strings doesn’t automatically make it artistically valid.
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    23 apr 11
    Are valid lyrics only in poetry? And Claudio Lolli? De Andrè? Guccini? Paolo Conte? Personally, I find them valid. It doesn’t seem to me that some operatic texts, for example, are more inspired. "Che gelida manina, me la lasci riscaldar..." So does Puccini suck just for this? I don’t think so. PS: Felo, forgive me if I sent you two emails instead of just one.
     
  • JURIX
    JURIX
    23 apr 11
    @FELO: I only sent you one. Just to let you know it was March, not May.
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    23 apr 11
    ..maybe I insult too much, everyone tells me so... it’s my way of expressing myself... anyway, that has nothing to do with listening to classical music..."you always resort to insults. Is that how classical music regenerates you, professor?".. a phrase that makes no sense at all.... clearly, even in classical music there are many atrocities.. I don't like Johann Strauss father and son with their waltzes at all... personally, I consider it superficial and utterly trivial music... more trivial than a lot of "modern" music...
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    23 apr 11
    ..anyway, the aria that Rodolfo sings to Mimi at the end of the first act of La Bohème says: "che gelida manina, se la lasci riscaldar," not "me la lasci riscaldar" ... an unforgivable mistake... and anyway, it wasn't certainly Puccini who wrote the librettos for the operas... there was the librettist... actually, in the case of La Bohème there were Giuseppe Giacosa and Luigi Illica.
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    23 apr 11
    ...finally, I’ll be ridiculous but in my opinion, a classical musician of the caliber of, for example, Elgar or Bruch is definitely worth more than any "modern" music artist... Am I wrong??!!... those artists, before being musicians, were philosophers and thinkers.. their music is the result of years and years of work, suffering, and meditation.. in the case of the Ninth Symphony, Beethoven worked for 15 years and achieved absolute purity.. powerful and mystical music... and rock, in its presence, is just junk (including Frank Zappa)
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    23 apr 11
    "I value what you write, a lot of nonsense"...slay, you write these phrases but you can't justify them...you're out of ideas...
     
  • Felo
    Felo
    24 apr 11
    It was January.
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    24 apr 11
    "Unforgivable mistake"! Excuse me! It really changes the substance of the discussion. But what does the librettist have to do with it? What does it matter?!?! It doesn't make a difference that someone else wrote the text! I believe it was Puccini who deemed it valid or not, who chose whether it was suitable for his opera or not. But don't get hung up on these trivialities! If you didn't understand the meaning of my sentence, what can I say? Best wishes!
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    24 apr 11
    "Those artists, before being musicians, were philosophers and thinkers... their music is the result of years and years of work, suffering, and meditation... in the case of the Ninth Symphony, Beethoven worked for 15 years..." And who cares, aren’t you including that? If this is the method of evaluating art, then tonight I’ll sit on the toilet, do it for 15 years, and in the end, the result will be a masterpiece; if I have a degree in philosophy, it will be even more so! And don't tell me there's no suffering because just imagine how much it takes to shit for 15 years. This way of thinking is DEVALUING art: it's as if someone had to have specific credentials to be a true artist. You’re happy with that, fine, think what you want. Personally, when I evaluate a work, my only criterion is this: do I like it or not? I don't care at all about knowing the name, credentials, or life of the author, just as I don't care about the genre of the work in question.
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    24 apr 11
    ..you really said a string of embarrassing nonsense...so I never said that the method of evaluating art is solely, as you implied, the number of years of work or the suffering the artist encounters in bringing their work to life...because, by this measure, Rossini's Barber of Seville wouldn't be considered a masterpiece since the author took only a week to write the opera...I simply meant to say that to compose good music one must first be equipped with suitable knowledge not only in music but also in literature and philosophy...only in this way can a profound work emerge that will endure through the ages.
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    24 apr 11
    ..second thing..I made the example of Beethoven, who suffered and reflected for 15 years in order to write the ninth symphony, ultimately managing to create a work that is absolutely complete, pure, "objectively" splendid in both content and form, as the centuries have amply and clearly demonstrated.. if you suffer for 15 years and produce a piece of crap that is "objectively" shit, you are incompetent.. what kind of argument is that?.. suffering for its own sake is worthless and it's much better if you don't endure it; the suffering that leads to a great achievement or a great work of art is rewarded by the immortality of the work itself..
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    24 apr 11
    "I don't care at all about knowing the name, credentials, or life of the author… obviously, the most important thing is the artist's 'innate' talent… if that innate talent, in its raw state, is properly cultivated, then the artist can significantly elevate their level and produce immortal works... therefore, it's also necessary to inquire about the credentials and life of the author."
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    24 apr 11
    "as I don't care about the genre of the work in question" ..brao mona
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    24 apr 11
    ..I too have graduated..
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    24 apr 11
    "To write good music, one must first equip oneself with adequate culture, not only musical but also literary and philosophical... only then can a profound work emerge that will last for centuries" <-- For me, it's not like that, whether you arrive at it or not. "And then such innate talent, when properly nurtured, allows the artist to significantly elevate their level and produce immortal works..." for me, it's not like that (thank goodness you mentioned Van Gogh in this DePagina yourself). Remember that no artistic work, even if written by Beethoven, is "objectively" splendid. If I’ve said an embarrassing series of nonsense, why are you even talking to me? "Therefore, one must also check the credentials and life of the author"--> I don't find that at all relevant. "I am a graduate too" <--- So? Who cares?
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    24 apr 11
    (error: of course it was "are you getting there or not?" with the question mark). Anyway, I’m also a bit tired of this discussion; it's clear that we have totally different viewpoints and there’s no rule that says we have to find a point of agreement, and I also think that neither of us really cares. Best regards and enjoy digesting the mega Easter lunch.
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    24 apr 11
    My reference to a degree in philosophy was clearly ironic, a nod to what you said ("those artists, before being musicians, were philosophers and thinkers"). I do not have a degree in philosophy.
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    24 apr 11
    "Thank goodness you yourself mentioned Van Gogh in this DePagina… because why, excuse me, wouldn't Van Gogh have studied and cultivated his talent??? He studied perspective and anatomy extensively… he studied painters and painting techniques from artists like Millet and Daumier… “Remember that no artistic work, even if written by Beethoven, is 'objectively' splendid”… fortunately that’s NOT the case… objective beauty certainly exists; otherwise, if everything were subjective, one could easily say that Tiziano Ferro is better than Beethoven…"
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    24 apr 11
    ...end of the conversation...and in any case "Innate talent" + "a lot of study and discipline" = "work of art"...talent alone is not enough and cannot be the foundation because art is a discipline made up of a set of rules, and those rules must be studied...
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    24 apr 11
    ...I would really love to be there two hundred years from now and see if in some auditorium they will be playing Queen songs...
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    24 apr 11
    I would really like to be there in two hundred years and see if songs by Queen will be played in some auditorium.. --> And would this prove that Queen aren't valid? Do you think that if billions of people think differently from me about something SUBJECTIVE like a work of art, I would change my opinion? You're wrong. I like Queen, and if in 200 years no one knows them, I couldn't care less.
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    24 apr 11
    So if in 200 years, absurdly, people stopped listening to Beethoven, would that mean he is no longer valid? What are you saying! It is perfectly legitimate to claim that Tiziano Ferro is better than Beethoven: if someone—who is not me—feels that TF gives them more emotions than B, should this person assert the opposite just to avoid the stain of lèse-majesté? If the value of art lies in the emotions it conveys, IT CANNOT BE PROVEN THAT A GIVEN WORK CONVEYS MORE EMOTIONS THAN ANOTHER; this can only be done on a subjective level, not an objective one. Do I make myself clear? Yes? No? Who cares.
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    25 apr 11
    Oh my God.. what the hell are you saying.. come on, stop saying stupid things... that guy who gets more emotional listening to Ferro instead of Beethoven (and unfortunately, there are many guys like that) clearly hasn't "understood" anything about Beethoven... let’s say a person likes Ferro; then that person, in their life, takes the time to get closer to, appreciate, and understand Beethoven's music... well, mark my words, from that moment on, that person will definitely get more emotional listening to Beethoven... there is no doubt about it.
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    25 apr 11
    You have the mental plasticity of an Islamic fundamentalist.
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    25 apr 11
    ..it is a problem of lack of musical culture and widespread ignorance if there are people who are more moved by ferro than by Brahms..those few who "feel" Brahms's music, because they have been educated to listen, inevitably feel more deeply with Brahms than with ferro..objectively, there is an abyssal gap...
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    25 apr 11
    Alright... NO COMMENT. It's not that I don't know what to say to you, it's just that I don't feel like doing it anymore. Goodnight.
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    25 apr 11
    ...one can say that there is a subjective preference if a person likes Mozart more than Beethoven or Brahms over Wagner...but when comparing Brahms to Morricone, there is objectively an abyssal leap in qualitative level...one cannot reduce everything to a purely subjective matter; otherwise, Justin Bieber nowadays risks being considered more significant than Townes Van Zandt...instead, everything can easily be reduced to a question of culture and artistic sensitivity acquired from the culture itself...
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    25 apr 11
    You just can’t get it. Forget it.
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    26 apr 11
    ...you definitely get there..."innate talent" + "a lot of study, a lot of culture, a lot of discipline" = "artist"...simple
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    26 apr 11
    Good job, study math. Art is another thing.
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    26 apr 11
    If everything were solved with this equation, as you claim, many things wouldn't add up. I remember reading that you never listen to progressive. Many members of those groups certainly have innate talent, they have undeniable cultural and musical preparation... so how come you don't like their music? Yet innate talent + culture, study and various bullshit... = artist. So what doesn’t add up? It’s that music doesn’t give you the same sensations, the same emotions as when you listen to the music that gives YOU something more! This is the subjective aspect of art. So listen to your classical music, you have every right to, BUT DON’T BE A PAIN IN THE ASS TO OTHERS, as if others were ignorant and insensitive people who settle for crap while you eat caviar.
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    26 apr 11
    It was "that you do not LOVE the progressive. So many MEMBERS..."
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    26 apr 11
    Oh God, I told you that you love the members! Don’t get pissed off ;)
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    26 apr 11
    Well, that equation is a very incisive and concise synthesis of a thought that is definitely more articulated and substantial.. it's somewhat of a provocation.. but I believe in it... anyway, I don't disdain all progressive rock.. I greatly admire Robert Wyatt solo, Soft Machine, and King Crimson.. they certainly have "culura, studio e cazzate varie" and also that "talento innato" that an ear "abbituato alla classica" can perceive and grasp.. many progressive bands like Genesis, Yes, Emerson Lake and Palmer do not possess that talent or have it in "quantità e qualità" inferior, resulting in their supposed works of art being simply a pure display of technical skills and virtuosity for its own sake..
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    26 apr 11
    ...and still, I have never denied that there is a subjective aspect to art... for one person, Mozart's talent may evoke more emotions than Beethoven's... and of course!... however, it absolutely cannot be that Allevi evokes more emotions than Brahms, since in that case, the one who claims such nonsense does not possess the necessary culture and understanding of the German composer... here, then, an objective artistic gap between Allevi and Brahms conceptually comes into play, which is undeniable... thus, I assert that artistic judgment cannot be reduced to a matter that is only and purely subjective...
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    26 apr 11
    ..it's a blend of subjective and objective..
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    26 apr 11
    ...if there were no objective judgment of beauty (which elicits emotion), then it wouldn't be understood why some works of art are considered superior to all others and deemed the greatest masterpieces of humanity... the Sistine Chapel, the David, the Pietà, the Mona Lisa, the Scrovegni Chapel, the Divine Comedy, Crime and Punishment, War and Peace, Hamlet, the Ring of the Nibelungs, the Ninth Symphony, etc. etc....
     
  • j&r
    j&r
    26 apr 11
    ..in short, Bar Refaeli is objectively more "beautiful" than Rosi Bindi or not?.. then between Bar Refaeli and Belen it's subjective..
     
  • JohannesUlver
    JohannesUlver
    26 apr 11
    Okay, now I can go along with that. We understand each other.
     
  • scotweekender
    scotweekender
    31 oct 12
    Respect just for putting Ginger Baker in the top five and the almost forgotten Ocasek!!!
     
  • pana
    pana
    1 nov 12
    TOM VERLAINE!
     
  • pana
    pana
    1 nov 12
    All joking aside, there are many geniuses here.
     
  • rolando303
    rolando303
    16 aug 13
    I don't understand the point of including some members of groups and not the whole group.
     
  • Dr.Adder
    Dr.Adder
    19 sep 20
    What to say...very beautiful, but...Adrian Belew?
     
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