kosmogabri

As you see Francis, everyone has different experiences, you and your friends, or my sister (who is about your age but has different tastes - DuranDuran). But you can't put all the herbs in one bunch, I'm sorry. When you and your friends were listening to Queen, there was an endless crowd listening to Vasco... If you limit your theory to your experiences and those of your partner, then I agree, but if you extend it globally, I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense... anyway, bye :))

Indeed, Francis. Let’s put things into perspective. Queen were four members, but the “captain” was Freddy, likewise for the Beatles and Lennon. Narrowing the comparison to the two leaders, Mercury and Lennon... at this point, you can’t tell me that iconographically these two figures aren’t on the same level (even though, while I love Freddie very much, for me Lennon is "undeniably" a step above, musically speaking). Each in their own way and style was born, lived, and died as a true rock icon. John’s little glasses are a Rock Symbol just as much as Freddie’s mustache. But perhaps the problem is something else. I grew up with the Beatles, which means it was something I experienced live, and Queen came along at a time when my musical influences were already branching out in various directions, whereas you’ve already explained how you experienced them... ultimately, what I ask myself is: what makes you assert with such absolute certainty that Queen are iconographically stronger in the popular imagination? I would like to know what basis you have for this statement. Have you read statistics? Did you conduct a survey among your acquaintances? Where does this thesis come from? Because you see, as a music merchant for a decade (the '90s, mind you here in Switzerland), I know that when it comes to iconography (posters, t-shirts, calendars, etc.) and particularly around Christmas, it was imperative to have a selection of Beatles gadgets in the store (the figurines from the Help era - them making signals with their arms - were flying off the shelf, I’d get them from England, they even used to put those figurines in the Nativity scene), while for Queen it was imperative to have mainly CDs or limited edition vinyls (the infamous Japanese prints or original press vinyls) and not t-shirts (well maybe a few) or posters (I never sold a Queen poster)... To conclude: the posters and gadgets that sold best were (and still are today) those of Elvis, Beatles, Clash, Bob Marley, and Kurt Cobain. These are the evergreen ones. That’s all folks. Kisses, I’m off, I have too much to do…

Here's some advice, Francis, since you enjoy debating. Take a look at the old reviews on Queen, on Bowie, on Bolan... these stories have already been told many times, in fact countless times, and you might even have some fun. The Beatles didn't have a popular impact? Then what is ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE? Wasn't it a planetarily popular song? Oh right, according to you, We Are The Champions is more so, the world's people know it better than All You Need Is Love... Whatever! I’ll stop here, unfortunately I don’t have much time for discussions these days, even though I enjoy them ------- NICK! And me? Aren’t you inviting me? BAD :(

Excuse me for interrupting, but I would like to say a couple of things: Francis, Francis... I quote what you wrote: "My first approach to music was at 8 years old with the Beatles: then, right after, came the Queen." Well, it seems to me that "iconographically," in your musical and life education, the Beatles came first and only later (during your adolescence) did the Queen appear... You should be the last one to say that "iconographically" the Queen are stronger than the Beatles. And you don't consider one thing when talking about Icons. The Beatles were four. Four different character entities. And, besides Lennon and McCartney, everyone knows what Harrison and Starr looked like. The Beatles went through various historical periods; before being a Beatle, Lennon was a Rockabilly delinquent, then they became a unique style themselves, then they became flower children, then baronets, then intellectual-chic (Lennon) or managerial-chic (McCartney). In short, they made the history of "costume" in rock. Meanwhile, the Queen were essentially identified with Freddie Mercury; at best, people remember May's face, or at least his curly hair... but the other two? The Beatles acted in films, were photographed in every way, their styles were (and are) imitated by half the world, and their hairstyles sparked discussions across the universe. "Iconographically" (and musically), the Beatles are the ones who are most imitated, still today, especially among English bands (Oasis just to throw out a random name? Or the Swedish The Hives? Do you want the complete list?). While in the collective imagination, there are few (compared to the Beatles) symbolic images of the Queen... Mercury jumping around like crazy on stage in a tight jumpsuit with curly chest hair, or the album covers, or Freddie saying goodbye for the last time to the universe from the Live Aid stage... A few videos (Bohemian Rhapsody), a few provocative photos, some live footage... that's the memory I have of the Queen, and "iconographically," let me tell you, as a seasoned fox, in this challenge, the Beatles far surpass the Queen. A reasonable comparison would be Queen vs. Led Zeppelin (still "iconographically"), or Queen vs. The Who. The only one with whom the Beatles contest the scepter of the Greatest Rock Icon is Elvis; that's the only comparison that holds (again, "iconographically"). One more thing. In the review, you talk about "a lot of glam." Quite rightly... hard rock has little to do with the Queen (aside from some of May's solos)... the Queen invented Glam-Rock, and you absolutely cannot take that away from them :) (For heaven's sake... why are you shouting? Come on!) hey guys...

Here’s Meg, I really like her... go for it Marco :D

Welcome Marco. The first one is always a trial, we await the others :) I like Elisa and when I listen to this album I will let you know.

Good job on the first one, Honey :)

bONJ I agree with you, everyone has their own anti-bush song and everyone rushed to release it before the presidential elections... Strategies? Political or market? Who knows...

Charles, my goodness, your post is terrifying, it's a concentration of preconceptions, it's a "preconceptions express"! It does not do you justice! Bloomer: "You have abnormal synapses, absolutely warped." Thank you, unfortunately, the use of acid drugs at a young age has taken its toll! :D Hagen, when she was Lavigne's age, was a celebrated star of German popular music, you know, the kind they sing at beer festivals. It was a horrible thing, but then she was reevaluated with punk. I meant to say that Lavigne still has a wide margin for recovery because she has TIME (at 18, you still have your whole life ahead), and in my opinion, she'll make it (just like Hagen did, who, by the way, is one of my idols). Voilà. Now perhaps it's better that I go grab some phosphorus; my synapses are going crazy... :)

I feel implicated by Maynard's statement ("I don't agree with the positive footprint with which your review was received.."). Dear Maynard, you know I respect you a lot and you know I like your reviews, even if - and you’ll admit this too - they are often cryptic. But I also like Francis's reviews, and I appreciate his choices as well. I don’t see Debaser as an exclusive place where it is necessary to bash those who talk about "mainstream." For work, I have to listen to a lot of mainstream music and write reviews about it. Unfortunately, being a "snob," precisely the kind of person who loves to talk only about "underground" music, writing reviews of popular music is an immense effort. Francis gives me a great lesson, and, as I said, I am amazed by his analytical ability, fresh, completely free from preconceived notions and negativity (Buckley’s is a different case, as Francis already explained, it’s his MMM :D), preconceived notions of which I am a victim. Then there’s a separate discussion about positivism. I know that here I am considered a "do-gooder"... it’s said sometimes as if it were a swear word... oh well...