pippo 70

DeRank ™: 1,01 • DeAge™ : 4164 days

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  • Here since 19 december 2013
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  • zappp
    zappp
    21 jun 17
    You're baking beautiful pearls in listening, indulge in my courtship :-)
     
  • Dislocation
    Dislocation
    1 jun 17
    Ormofilo! A brother....
     
  • silvietto
    silvietto
    11 mar 17
    Hi Pippo, I just discovered a plagiarism involving your hero Aldo, although it's actually due to Pagliuca who co-signed the track! It's precisely the first eponymous piece of the album that made them famous, namely "Collage." The electric piano solo followed by the drums is exactly the "Sonata in mi maggiore K 380" by Domenico Scarlatti, and it lasts nearly 2 minutes. Did you know about this? Since it's not mentioned in the album, it really is plagiarism. Can you check it out, thanks?
     
    • pippo 70
      11 mar 17
      I confirm that the piece "Collage" was freely inspired by Domenico Scarlatti's "Sonata." If I remember correctly, the piece was called "Collage" because it was composed as a sort of patchwork of various classical works, even though, in my profound ignorance on the matter, it seems to me that I only detect the presence of the piece you mentioned within it. In those years, it was probably a bit fashionable to forget to mention the original authors of works copied outright; for instance, "Horizons" by Genesis, which I believe you pointed out to me was practically identical to a suite for cello by Bach, or "The Lemon Song" by Led Zeppelin, which was nothing but "Killing Floor" by Howlin' Wolf, already covered previously by Jimi Hendrix. In that case, it seems to me that the original composer was cited, whereas Led Zeppelin signed it as if it were a piece written by them. I certainly find it much more correct to indicate the author and, if necessary, specify that the piece was arranged by Tizio and Caio, rather than implying that these last ones composed it directly. EL&P created a version of "Pictures At An Exhibition" by Mussorgsky, reworking it by writing original lyrics, but they credited the composer, just as Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull did when he reworked "Bourée" by Bach. EL&P were one of the groups most accustomed to this practice of reworking classical pieces, but they always specified the authors in the credits. In fact, in those years it was a rather widespread practice to plagiarize others' works, especially in the prog scene, a genre characterized by the blending of various musical cultures.
    • silvietto
      12 mar 17
      Perfect, so you confirm. For verification on the piece by Scarlatti, which is quite rare, I also asked the King for confirmation, who’s doing great in terms of discography. It was probably the Nice who were the most accustomed to this practice, and in the end, it's Emerson who is the champion of classical reinterpretation, but he cited his sources and arranged it in his own way; whereas in this case, there’s a straightforward copy. Passing the piece off as entirely one's own: not very correct, artistically speaking!
      Thank you for your collaboration. Silvio
    • pippo 70
      12 mar 17
      I came across the piece by Scarlatti years ago when one of those collections of classical music was released at the newsstand. If I remember correctly, the series was called "Pianoforte" and the piece seemed to be titled "Rondò Capriccioso" by Domenico Scarlatti.
    • silvietto
      13 mar 17
      Since it is a "Sonata," it cannot be a "Rondo"... let alone capricious. The fundamental difference with the pieces reworked by other great groups, which you rightly mention, is that this one belongs to a composer who is quite little known, especially among the youth who at the time (and even after) praised Le Orme and is therefore difficult to find.
    • Battlegods
      18 mar 17
      I'm not crazy about the title track "Collage." The only interesting jam is "Cemento Armato" (with a finale that's perhaps too inflated). Pagliuca's effects are cool in "Evasione totale." "Uomo di pezza" has "La porta chiusa," which makes me think WAY TOO MUCH of EL&P and even Banco's "Darwin," even though it's definitely an album that was part of my teenage years ;)
    • silvietto
      21 mar 17
      "Collage" needs to be put into context; you’re too young to do that. "Uomo di Pezza" predates "Darwin," so if anything, it’s the other way around. EL&P were a beacon for any second-tier keyboardist back then. Have you changed your image?
    • Dislocation
      7 jun 17
      Gentlemen, while remaining in awe of Le Orme and the work discussed by Silvietto and Pippo70, I hope not to (re)witness another episode of the columns "The Italians in rock and prog copy from foreigners" or, worse, "Rock musicians have drawn heavily from the classical repertoire".... Both of these worn-out topics have lost their weight over the years; they may have made some sense and attracted attention back in the day when these works saw the light, but more importantly, it no longer makes sense to discuss them in light of the fact that, yes, both statements are true.
      I say this as a fan, collector, and convinced supporter, among others, of the vast majority of the bands and solo artists we now define as "prog." However, listening to records released from the '70s onward, we cannot hide from the obvious (and sometimes unsettling, if not blatant) analogies between the works, I mention just a few, of New Trolls, Le Orme, Premiata, Banco, Rovescio, Osanna, and many more, with the works of EL&P, Jethro Tull, Yes, Deep Purple, Hendrix, King Crimson... Shall I continue? Furthermore, it is also true that the various bands influenced each other and sometimes borrowed from one another, given the ongoing rivalry between some of them, sometimes real and sometimes “sought”...
      This is just to say that it seems a bit sterile, in my opinion, to search for "suspicious" and "blatant" analogies between one track and another, or even between one album and another; we would find plenty, even two plenty, or three plenty.... Silvietto is right; at the time, it was common practice to listen and repeat, especially among the bands born in the far provinces of the Empire like ours, but also like the French, the Germans, the Swedes, the Japanese...
      If we want to talk about it like this, over a beer, then the whole thing takes on a different meaning, more friendly and certainly more enjoyable.... Cheers to all, guys!
    • Dislocation
      7 jun 17
      Sorry for the mistakes, guys, I wrote this spontaneously...
    • Battlegods
      7 jun 17
      Of course, we are absolutely not snubbing Italian works! I love PFM, Banco, "Aria" by Sorrenti, "Volo Magico" by Rocchi, Area, Orme... the only point I was making is that copies without originality are just for listening and nothing more, while the bands that, even with some foreign echoes, produce excellent works are to be revered and nothing less ;)
  • Battlegods
    Battlegods
    7 mar 17
    Hello! ;) "Suspended in the incredible"
     
    • silvietto
      13 mar 17
      Who?
    • Battlegods
      13 mar 17
      Everyone :)
    • silvietto
      13 mar 17
      Or no one?
    • Battlegods
      13 mar 17
      Surely your 1700 CDs!
    • silvietto
      13 mar 17
      Well, without meaning to, you got it! There are 5 shelves hanging with wires each 5 m long, fixed to a wall overlooking a glass mezzanine, and seen from the lower floor, they really appear "suspended in the incredible." Too bad I can't send you the photo! Anyway, I will adopt that definition, thanks. Among them, of course, there's the one that contains the piece you mention.............
    • Battlegods
      13 mar 17
      Ahah I'm very happy for you ;) I wonder what rarities you have with that amount!
    • silvietto
      13 mar 17
      Sure, I could recommend a few, but here we are guests.........
    • Battlegods
      13 mar 17
      When you advise, we will be joyful to listen!
    • silvietto
      14 mar 17
      If it has to be joy, then let it be joy! I have two LP proposals that I just picked up again: the first kraut is by Tangerine Dream ----> "Stratosfear", the second prog is by Michael Giles (ex KC) -----> "Progress", for which I also wrote a review. Let me know what you think.
    • Battlegods
      14 mar 17
      I follow the Tangerine up to "Phaedra." Of Giles and McDonald, I know the first album, very beautiful and little acclaimed ;)
    • silvietto
      15 mar 17
      TD: it's worth taking a few steps beyond "Phaedra," that's my advice. Giles: right! If that was little acclaimed (the first CD proposal came from the Japanese.....) this one I'm pointing out is equally valid but unknown even to more informed prog lovers: after all, you asked me for a rarity, didn’t you?
    • Battlegods
      15 mar 17
      Of course, perfect advice ;) but later they risk being too "mechanical," too cold (maybe?), I'll listen to them again and let you know. And it’s not that if I snub cold or mathematical sounds, I shouldn't like Kraftwerk, on the contrary, up until "Computerworld" they are excellent!
    • silvietto
      18 mar 17
      Eccelsi is a strong word. Did you see the concert at the Arena last September?
  • pippo 70
    pippo 70
    3 mar 17
    Hi Silvietto. I have taken on my first two reviews; since I hold you in high esteem and consider you a very knowledgeable person, I would be very happy to receive your impression. Thank you, see you soon.
     
    • silvietto
      3 mar 17
      Hi Pippo, I saw your review announcement, two of them! When I get back from work I'll read them, without knowing anything about the albums reviewed.... Thank you for your expression of esteem, which I reciprocate.
      Looking forward to reading you soon. Bye
  • silvietto
    silvietto
    3 mar 17
    Sorry, Pippo, I accidentally deleted your private message. Could you please resend it to me?
    Thanks, bye.
     
  • IlConte
    IlConte
    9 jan 17
    Thank you for stopping by Jon and me.
     
  • silvietto
    silvietto
    21 oct 16
    Thank you for your kind words.
     
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