Dragonstar

I read it a few years ago, and I have a great memory of it. Manfredi is a writer that I appreciate a lot :)

Honestly: I doubt this book has immense artistic value, but it has the notable merit of bringing many people's attention back to the historical period of the decline of the Western Roman Empire. So, let there be films and books that distort historical events; they can help bring the masses closer to historical truth (for example, the film "300" has shed "media" light on the glorious chapter of the second war between Greeks and Persians... which isn't a bad thing).

Great record, yes, definitely different, but it's not strange considering that Hammill was in constant evolution during that period (1977-78 this record, the singer-songwriter intimacy of "Over," then the live "Vital" and "The Future Now").

However, the line-up has changed rather than being mutilated; the number of members remains the same.

Yes, it's fair to define "Cat's Eye/Yellow Fever" (better than the album by a wide margin) as baroque/rock. An interesting album but three stars, no more at least in my opinion...

Apart from the last we can do, pawn hearts, e h to he, what other albums would you recommend?

Everyone. But apart from this, "Godbluff," "Still Life" (melodic, singing, and lyrical ecstasy of Hammill), and the live "Vital." These are the other three masterpieces.

For me, you could even prefer it to "Pawn Hearts," look. At such high levels and with a similar series of masterpieces, it's normal for everyone to have their own rankings; in fact, I prefer to avoid doing that with them. "Still Life," even more than "Godbluff" and "World Record" (the weakest of the second trio, which says a lot) really has nothing to envy from the previous triad, nothing. It’s just much less wild and experimental compared to those three, much less angry than "Godbluff," and definitely more mature and "lyrical." The most intensely "romantic" and intimate album by VDGG that reaches heights in both lyrics and music that are absolutely sublime. After all, "Over" by Hammill was not far off, so it's obvious that Peter was in a moment of total inspiration (which won't end, with various revolutions and stylistic experiments, at least until 1980, at least...). As for them and his solo work, in my opinion, nothing is to be discarded. Maybe 2-3 solo things... Out of 40-50 albums :D

In short, you shouldn't get stuck on the '70-'71 of Van Der Graaf. Hammill has maintained an impressive quality throughout his career with very few missteps, both with the band and, especially, as a solo artist. That's my answer to you :)

And I conclude that the first triad had only that more particular sound, truly "unique," which has somewhat faded with maturity. But the compositional skill has remained and the ideas have continued to be many. Chapeau.

"saying that." Damn.

Ah, and the electric guitar solo parts that, when they were present (rarely), were played by the guest Fripp. Well, just this, otherwise "Still Life" is on the same levels.

I share what Hj said, one of the many great works of the band.

Ha, Ha. Wow! It seems that hj likes VDGG just a bit!!! By the way, I already knew that from the discussion about Jethro Tull, anyway I've always found this album among my favorites precisely because of the immediacy of its melodies (at least that's the effect it had on me when I listened to it for the first time). In headphones, it's amazing. I would love to find the big vinyl. 50 km from my house, there's someone who sells them (he has a huge warehouse. All used stuff, but generally in good condition). I’ll have to drop by. Even though my dream is to find the original prints of Comus (First Utterance) and the eponymous album by High Tide... pray for me...

Oh my god, can you tell that much? XD Yes, this is more immediate in the melodies, inspired and perfect. Wonderful. And with their most beautiful cover. I can't say anything about the vinyl, I don't have a turntable. Good luck anyway.

The vinyl format is still the most beautiful in my opinion. More flawed and problematic, of course, but undoubtedly the most fascinating. Luckily, these days there's also the internet, so if someone has a thirst for knowledge, it doesn't take long to satisfy it. When I'm online, I always have headphones in my ears, but if I discover something interesting, I at least buy the original CD. I'm a bit old-fashioned. I like to see the records neatly arranged on the shelves...

Oh, I always take the mp3 for the iPod and my insomnia, but when it comes to CDs, I'm like you, as long as the coin allows it. That's why I don't have a turntable; buying vinyls again, no way, I can't do it :)

Until The Quiet Zone and..... I have all the vinyls. Nothing goes to waste from Del Generatore.

I really like World Record too, what can I say? And also The Quiet Zone / The Pleasure Dome. On the other hand, I didn't get Present; there are magnificent things and some that are, I don't know, and perhaps this also applies to the rest of their career, great but no longer, how can I put it?, incendiary. Live, they’ve obviously become something special now that they're a trio, and if Real Time was excellent (you have the triple CD version, right Hj?), the rearranged versions for trio promise surprises and come closer to the usual PH performances, which I really enjoy. I love 'Merlin Atmos' a lot, even more than the live one at Paradiso.

Sure, 'The Least We Can Do...'... but do we really have to choose? Anyway, my favorite is 'H To He'.

You might be right, but that's not the important thing. The important thing is that the only title track of this album is worth the whole world. It contains so much lyrical, musical, and literary depth that it stands at the absolute peaks of English music in the '70s. Moreover, the album doesn't just have the title track.

@Dragonstar: on Amazon they have First Utterance on vinyl, there's a reissue but there's also an original, at least it seems so to me. We're around 30 euros, nothing extraordinary. My usual vinyl dealers currently don't have either of the two LPs, I've checked, but it's stuff that circulates quite a bit, even High Tide can be found and you just need to be patient.

chicco: 1) YES! I have the triple Real Time and soon I'll have the double CD of Merlin Atmos too, which is a fantastic live album (for now I've listened to it in the best possible quality mp3). 2) World Record is beautiful; I mentioned that among the second triad it’s the least successful, and that should make one think... ("Masks" "Meurglys III"...) 3) I also like "The Quiet Zone/The Pleasure Dome," a nice album even if not a masterpiece, it brings a breath of novelty to the lineup, the same one that live will create that masterpiece "Vital." That breath of novelty will then explode definitively with Hammill solo from "The Future Now" onward. I love "Present" while the subsequent ones are good but not exceptional, but as we said before, nothing from them should be thrown away. 4) Yes, live in a trio they sound different, that's obvious, and it's true that this partly brings Vandergraafian tracks closer to Hammill's solo performances (which, after all, he has always used the songs he wrote for the group as a solo artist) that you adore and you can imagine I do too. 5) Finally, Jargon (which, coincidentally, carries the name of a song from one of Hammill's most dazzling masterpieces) is right on all counts. Ah, and no chicco, better not to force yourself to choose. The end.

This album is extraordinary... it occupies the same role in their second trilogy that "Pawn Hearts" holds in their first trilogy. There's less experimentation compared to the years '70/'71, but the inspiration in the lyrics (first and foremost), the music, and Hammill's vocal performances remains objectively high. The title track, as Jargon stated, is a sumptuous masterpiece, but the other four are no joke either. The only "flaw" is in the arrangement of "My Room," which feels a bit too "polished" for my taste (though it has a text of great depth).

what a drag, the genesis

I totally disagree (about Genesis) but what does it matter? :))

"These Genesis are such a drag" is a comment that Renegade also made on one of my rankings. I think the excessive prog has left him in a state similar to post-hallucinogenic substance use...

What a drag this renegade is.

"Pilgrims" is illegal...

The peace of the senses? Indeed! :-P

I don’t know, for me he’s always copied here and there (and often badly too).

Come on, after a negative comment there needs to be a positive one: for me this album is fantastic, the last one with that "Eastern European" Capossela that I've always adored (especially in Ballo di San Vito). For me, the best track will always be Nella Pioggia.

Copied who?
Copied what?
Great album. Look, if only there were more copycats like this. Especially nowadays with the "clowns" created on TV.

And let the others laugh tonight, let the others laugh at me!

No copying right and left, absolutely not. At most from Tom Waits, in the early albums. But aside from a couple of blatant plagiarisms so obvious ("Al colosseo") that they seem like homages to me, he was just inspired by a master—nothing wrong with that. This album is very beautiful anyway.

Together with "Ovunque Proteggi," in my opinion, the best by Capossela.

Well. Even if so, taking inspiration from Tom Waits (who in turn has listened to tons of crime jazz, blues, and various nighttime music) doesn’t seem like a problem to me. The guy has his own characteristics and a rather pronounced and, frankly, uncomfortable personality, not exactly inclined to easy success.

So he would have copied Waits on the early albums? Sorry for the surprise, but what do you hear of Waits in All'una e Trentacinque Circa, Modì, and Camera con Vista a Sud? (not to mention that at the beginning of his career everyone called him a clone of Conte...)

And for the first time in my miserable life, I agree with Chicco (where there's a child).

For me, it is truly inimitable.

Here, on this adjective, I agree with Zanna for the first time.

So it would be Nes who deserves the real fuck-offs, right?

Yes, if he tells you to fuck off, but are you perhaps his lawyer? I'm sure he knows how to respond just fine on his own.

Oh, if only there was a time when you understood what I mean! I probably speak a different language...

Where, apart from two OBVIOUS homage-plagiarisms, would I have talked about copying? I think I said "copying here and there," but not even in a dream. At most, he was inspired by Waits, but I see nothing wrong with that. And trust me, he's the last one who would deny such inspiration. But I've never understood the problem. He has his own personal style; what he creates has nothing to do with Waits, yet you all keep saying that every time. Sure, otherwise he would have made cover albums of Tom Waits, while he has only done a couple of "covers." That he has his own style, I know that too; that he is original on his own, I have never denied. That he drew from Waits (and from Conte, yes) is equally evident, and I repeat, I don’t understand what the problem is. Everyone has their inspirations.

To my (simple) question, however, you didn’t reply H.

In short, to put it briefly, “Did Acca copy Waits in the early albums?” No. Waits is one of the ones he started from, one of his totems. The one who copies because he has no ideas and talent is Zucchero, let’s not get confused, he is Capossela :)

Do you know when a score would be useful? To avoid claiming that the bass lines of Blur are inspired by those of Mick Karn, for example. The notes have been played and recorded, and they're there; you need to hear or read them before making claims like this, which are objectively wrong. Imagine comparing one of the greatest bassists of all time with those idiots. But of course, reasoning about notes with you is a waste of time.

Do you know that Hj is right? Zucchero copies a lot, honestly too much. Vinicio has never copied in his life. Damn, with the scarcity of worthy songwriter songs, are we going after Capossela? It takes courage... or maybe the discography of Blur.

Acca, but what do you want to dismantle? I asked you, "What do you hear of Waits in All'una e Trentacinque Circa, Modì, and Camera con Vista a Sud?" and you didn’t answer me. As for the rest, your exact quote is "No scopiazzato a destra e a manca proprio no. Al massimo da Tom Waits, nei primi dischi." I deduce that you weren't copying from anyone except Tom Waits in the early albums he recorded. And the two links you provided are from the latest albums. Explain to me once more what you would have dismantled so I can point out again what question you didn’t answer.

Chicco, would it be me who would have supported this thing about the Blur bassist?

Oh no, it was Nes, even though I don't understand what it has to do with this...

"Dismantling" in the sense that you told me, "Excuse me, but are you saying Capossela copies Waits in the early albums?" and I replied, "No, I'm definitely not saying that." Here is what I "dismantled," always in quotes. It's true that the sentence is poorly written; what I meant to say is, "At most, he drew inspiration from Tom Waits, but he certainly didn’t copy here and there." However, yes, I wrote the sentence poorly, but we've already talked about these things, so you should know that I don't consider Capossela a mere plagiarist of Waits, no matter how incomprehensible that sentence may have come out. Anyway, I clarified it abundantly afterward, right? What is it that doesn't add up for you? What there is of Waits in Capossela seems very obvious to me; what do I need to explain to you, Zanna? I've always automatically associated them during listening, not as a damn plagiarism but as a natural source of inspiration. If you didn't understand, I intervened to defend Capossela, not to accuse him of copying, as I've been saying for an hour. It doesn't matter if the two tracks I mentioned are from the latest albums; I brought them up to say those are the only tracks where one could argue he copied (or covered). For the rest, if there's anything, it's just normal inspiration from the masters. I don't know, I hope I've explained myself.

You explained it very well, but you only explained what I had already understood. You wrote 2 words that don’t make sense to me; I ask you to explain just those: primi dischi. If by that poorly phrased sentence you mean that you can hear the influence of Waits in Capossela's early albums, then I ask you where, since in the first 3 albums of Capossela I hear everything except Waits...

No, I said it. Clear evidence that it’s true. But what does the reading have to do with it? Have you compared the bass score of "Girls and Boys" with one from a random Japan song? Which song? Where did you find the score? Did you transcribe it yourself? Let me see it, I can read music too. But I never talked about tonality, rather about intention in the progressions.

I can feel it, even in this. The atmospheres, the drawling voice (oh, I’m not saying their voices are similar, for heaven’s sake), the use of instruments—I always sense something (very personal) that spans between Jazz, Conte, 70s Waits, and a bit of the later stuff, from which it seems to have drawn inspiration more subsequently but less often (including the two famous tracks linked). I can’t tell you more; I listen and can share the sensations I felt while listening, and I’ve always sensed Waits in there, even if Capossela is different—that’s another story. Oh, and let’s also do the top 5 albums, not just the top 3. Anyway, my statement wasn’t meant to be combative; I feel Waits among the main totems alongside other stuff. I don’t know what this changes for you; I’m not chicco, I don’t have the score in hand, I can only speak for the ears :)

It depends; compared to the 4/4 on the kick, there are such refinements that the sound, when it comes out, vibrates like when it plays in relation to the third album, which I don't compare to Toto Cutugno but maybe more to the Righeira.

"Intention in the loops." To die laughing. Not what the so-called bassist of Blur plays, but what he would have wanted to play if only he knew how to play the bass.

Let's not talk about Righeira worse than about Blur. Toto Cotugno, now that's on their level. It would make for a nice jam.

Boh! In A Room with a View South, just to make an example, there’s so much South America that even a deaf person would feel it, and it doesn’t seem to me that Waits is known for Brazilian or Cuban atmospheres. Then if you tell me the top 5, okay, and there’s also a good reason: in the Tarantella di San Vito plays a guy named Marc Ribot, not just anyone! After all, I know you hear Waits, damn it! But at this point, the early albums are a load of crap; Vinicio has made 8 albums in total. If the early albums are 5, then the early albums of the Floyd (just to throw out other things that annoy people) go up to The Wall!

Toto Cotugno and Chiccotana perform Song 2 rearranged by Duran Duran. The orchestra is conducted by Righeira!

Oh yes, there’s Marc Ribot, and certain similarities are evident, this time with the other Waits from the '80s-'90s. In *Camera con vista*, the South American visions don’t exclude Waits nor are they the same thing. South America is another obsession of Capossela’s; I didn’t mention it because we were talking about how much Waits felt in his early records (even the first three, come on, those are the most "controversial" in this discussion), and indeed I can hear it. The fact that there’s a ton of Latin atmosphere in the '94 album (if I’m not mistaken) is another matter. I mean, didn’t he also do other stuff and wasn’t he a carbon copy of Waits? Come on, I made myself clear. Let’s not carry this discussion on unnecessarily; I think you’ve exaggerated what I said (especially since I didn’t explain myself well at first). We were discussing how much this guy copied or not, and I cited as "at most" a source of inspiration that I automatically hear in his albums. Nothing more. And anyway, no, the early Pink Floyd albums go up to *Meddle*! :D Jokes aside, in the albums from '99 to 2006, you can hear a lot more of the disheveled, deconstructive Waits, perhaps, but as I said, it’s the other Waits I hear in the first three (just the first three). I never said there weren’t other inspirations, maybe even much clearer ones, like in *Camera con vista* with South America (and not just that with South America); I didn’t say it because it wasn’t being discussed :) I wanted to confine it to Waits to refute the thesis about copying (or to support it, but in remote and rare cases), but maybe I didn’t express it well.

Moreover, it’s grotesque that every time we talk about Capossela, we always end up discussing the same thing...

We talk about it because we like it.

There's no doubt about it, but we seem like two old folks on a park bench.

No, I'm not the bench type; I'm more of a pain-in-the-ass type on the sidelines.

And I think I have amply demonstrated it!

You are a mix of Noel Gallagher, Pier Paolo Farina, and a guy who used to write for Guitar Club.

I can never tell the Gallagher brothers apart: is Noel the dumb one or the asshole?

Anyway, I'm waiting for the scores, which would actually come in handy, Chiccota'. Noel is the one who wished D. Albarn to die of AIDS. The other one is an asshole.

Let's go for the excavations then ahahah

Now everything is clearer, thanks K!

For the scores of blur, horny, open a new Word document and they are all there. Convenient. Who do you want to have printed them? You can always use John Cage's 4'33"', if you want.

In the end, you're a good Chiccota’, just a bit of an attention whore, as they say in England. It’s just that I haven’t had a PC connection for a few days and I can’t send reviews from my phone, so nothing. Anyway, this idea of thinking in musical decades should be rejected. We should at least think in terms of half-centuries. Everything is a child of the same inspiration, the world hasn’t changed that much. Vision, friends.

Wisdom K!

I'm not saying that attention whoring will be done by your sister because that would be rude, and besides, your sister has nothing to do with it, clearly. You're just a tiny bit of an asshole too, but always speaking with respect, because for the rest you're a good person as well. Above all, I would say, an excellent bassist.

Label given to any person who craves attention (either negative or positive) to such an extent that they will do anything to receive it.

Wikizanna

No, Zurban DictionaryB!

you can't leave them alone for a moment

Led Zeppelin (just to give an example) were one of the greatest rock bands of the past, which seems to be a widely shared opinion, but that doesn't stop people from continuing in 2015 to talk about who inspired (or from whom he copied?) Jimi Page. If that's how it works for them, I don't think it can be any different for the good Vinicio, as great a singer-songwriter as he is and as much as I adore him. I keep listening to him without overthinking it; let the others do as they see fit...

they are there, oh yes, they are! I would recommend some VNV albums besides this one, like the previous one, Of Faith, Power And Glory, and the following one, Transnational. Plus the first one (Advance And Follow) and the third one (Empires). By the way, on May 15 a rearranged orchestral compilation of theirs is coming out, I can’t wait!

So I'll take note. As you may have understood, I'm not very familiar with them... we'll let them know...