j&r

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DeAge™ : 7145 days • Here since 5 september 2006
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Best Singer-Songwriters artist of all time
<b>Captain Beefheart & His Magic Band</b>

9

Captain Beefheart & His Magic Band

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  • Mr. Money87
    Mr. Money87
    8 sep 11
    Nick Drake?
     
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  • Mr. Money87
    Mr. Money87
    8 sep 11
    Oops, sorry...
     
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  • Stefano90
    Stefano90
    8 sep 11
    Nice ranking, but I just can't see De André that way... I'm sorry.
     
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  • Stefano90
    Stefano90
    8 sep 11
    For example, I could also see a Wyatt and a Beefheart...
     
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  • jdv666
    jdv666
    8 sep 11
    However, I see Wyatt more as prog (Canterbury); while Beefheart in the end made experimental blues.
     
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  • Felo
    Felo
    8 sep 11
    Don't you like the French school?
     
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  • Stefano90
    Stefano90
    8 sep 11
    I like to take the term singer-songwriter literally. One can be a singer-songwriter even doing Punk, for me.
     
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  • jdv666
    jdv666
    8 sep 11
    Well, then they’re all basically singer-songwriters.
     
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  • Stefano90
    Stefano90
    8 sep 11
    Oh... No! What criteria do you have to judge whether someone belongs to the singer-songwriter category or not? Let's take the first two in this ranking, they have nothing in common yet they are both singer-songwriters. Why?
     
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  • dosankos
    dosankos
    8 sep 11
    Beautiful beautiful. Uncle Faber in the top ten is quite satisfying.
     
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  • jdv666
    jdv666
    8 sep 11
    I tend to go a bit by exclusion; if other genres don’t fully capture an artist, I usually drop them into singer-songwriter territory :)
     
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  • jdv666
    jdv666
    8 sep 11
    Anyway, in fact, singer-songwriter music (like all genres) has very blurred boundaries; it then depends on personal sensitivity how to interpret an artist.
     
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  • j&r
    j&r
    8 sep 11
    ..you are "quite right".. I tragically forgot about two of my favorite artists.. and I don't understand how that could have happened... ROBERT WYATT and THE CAPTAIN!!
     
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  • j&r
    j&r
    9 sep 11
    "One can be a singer-songwriter even doing Punk" ...I absolutely agree with that... but it’s also true that, reasoning like this, we must consider the Ramones as singer-songwriters... then we are obliged to recognize as "singer-songwriters" those artists who have a reflective, introverted, melancholic style not, of course, like the "poser", but according to their own sincere, spontaneous, and intimate inclination to be so... moreover, the so-called "singer-songwriter" is that artist who pays almost more attention to the lyrics of their song than to the music...
     
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  • Stefano90
    Stefano90
    9 sep 11
    Well, the Ramones are a band... They wrote the music together. Anyway, looking at the charts, we more or less have the same idea of what a singer-songwriter is.
     
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  • pirata
    pirata
    9 sep 11
    yeah, without pete seeger, woody guthrie, hank williams, but please
     
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  • j&r
    j&r
    9 sep 11
    ..but pirate..fuck off!..what the hell do you want?
     
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  • j&r
    j&r
    9 sep 11
    ...so I should also include Patton, Johnson, Lemon Jefferson...
     
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  • j&r
    j&r
    9 sep 11
    and also son house, elmore james, willie nelson, jimmie rodgers..but please
     
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  • j&r
    j&r
    9 sep 11
    ..even Odetta..
     
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  • Felo
    Felo
    9 sep 11
    Guthrie wants us.
     
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  • Felo
    Felo
    9 sep 11
    But Wyatt after De André :(
     
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  • j&r
    j&r
    9 sep 11
    ...well yes, wyatt after de andré is a bit of a blasphemy...
     
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  • chinaski033
    chinaski033
    9 sep 11
    I think it's a beautiful ranking, and seeing Bob up there makes me really happy!
     
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  • jdv666
    jdv666
    9 sep 11
    nico, do you not like her? Anyway, I agree with J&R; singer-songwriter music should lean towards minimalism-intimacy and have voice and lyrics that are prominent or at least in the spotlight; that's why, for example, I wouldn't include Wyatt and Beefheart. Because if we limit ourselves to solo performers (who often have supporting musicians as well), then even, I don’t know, Eno or Bowie could be considered singer-songwriters. Stefano, what criteria do you use?
     
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  • j&r
    j&r
    10 sep 11
    jdv666, you're right... according to my criteria, by which I try to "qualify" a singer-songwriter, I shouldn't consider Wyatt and Beefheart as such... However, it’s also true that pieces like Alifib and Alife have such a melancholic, introspective, and intimate charge that I can't help but consider them singer-songwriter pieces... as for Beefheart, I see him as a co-songwriter because of his guttural singing that comes straight from the gut and is therefore "very intimate"...
     
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  • j&r
    j&r
    10 sep 11
    I love her so damn much.. you're right, I'm adding her right away!!
     
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  • Felo
    Felo
    10 sep 11
    Rightly, someone said that even doing Punk you can be a singer-songwriter (see David Peel). In my opinion, Wyatt is a singer-songwriter, much more "modern," but still a singer-songwriter. We are now in the 21st century; acoustic songs with strong, melancholic, or socially conscious lyrics can no longer be the only things considered singer-songwriter material. I see Beefheart less fitting in that. I believe everything is "Canzone d'autore". I would have added a bit of that French vibe like Brel or Brassens and my favorite Italic singer-songwriter, Piero Ciampi. Other than that, it's beautiful.
     
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  • jdv666
    jdv666
    10 sep 11
    Well, let's say that people like Wyatt and Beefheart are generally hard to categorize; so in the end, as long as you don’t say they made dance or minimalist electronic music, one can also roam a bit between genres :)
     
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  • Stefano90
    Stefano90
    10 sep 11
    @jdv666, for me, a singer-songwriter is someone who, regardless of the genre they belong to (even though I don't like categorizing musicians by reference genres, I do it for convenience), writes the music of the songs they sing/play and sometimes even the lyrics. This can (and almost always is) be accompanied by a band (see Nick Cave, Beefheart, Zappa, Springsteen...). @j&r and jdv666, if you attach great importance to the lyrics (j&r: "additionally, the so-called 'singer-songwriter' is that artist who pays almost more attention to the lyrics of their song than to the music..", jdv666: "anyway, I agree with j&r; singer-songwriter music should lean towards minimalism-intimacy and have voice and lyrics that are predominant or at least highlighted") you should know that almost always Tim Buckley did not write the lyrics of his "songs" and that nevertheless the words are not the main element of his works. Yet you consider him (in my opinion rightly) a singer-songwriter.
     
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  • jdv666
    jdv666
    10 sep 11
    Well, anyway, Buckley maintains an intimate/minimalist/reflective approach, and the singing is pretty prominent (in fact, he is famous for the way he used his voice). As already mentioned, genres are useful for orientation but shouldn’t become mental cages; this is undeniable, but Zappa, for example, I absolutely do not see as a singer-songwriter. de opinionibus ;)
     
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  • Stefano90
    Stefano90
    10 sep 11
    I don't even shovel...
     
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  • Stefano90
    Stefano90
    10 sep 11
    And I still don't know why...
     
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  • jdv666
    jdv666
    10 sep 11
    Well, in Zappa, it's worth mentioning that the band and the instrumental parts are very important; in fact, many of his albums are purely instrumental. I would say that the band should be strongly in the background; almost like session musicians, in order to talk about singer-songwriter style.
     
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  • Stefano90
    Stefano90
    10 sep 11
    Yes, right.
     
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  • Stefano90
    Stefano90
    10 sep 11
    It's true that Zappa made a lot of instrumental albums... Then the band was phenomenal. He's not a singer-songwriter. I don't fully agree with the second part of the comment, but never mind :)
     
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  • jdv666
    jdv666
    10 sep 11
    Well, in fact, maybe calling them almost shift workers was a bit excessive; but let's say that the songwriter should have a prominent place in my opinion.
     
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  • j&r
    j&r
    12 sep 11
    ..zappa is something more than a singer-songwriter.. he is probably the only true "composer" of "modern" music
     
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  • Felo
    Felo
    12 sep 11
    j&r, but do you like Zappa or not?
     
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  • j&r
    j&r
    12 sep 11
    ..I like Zappa, objectively some of his albums are true masterpieces, like Hot Rats, Absolutely Free, We're Only in It for the Money, Uncle Meat.. however, I must say that I only own 6 records from his immense body of work, so I can't give a comprehensive judgment on the artist... instead, I can tell you that, instinctively, beyond the music he makes, he rubs me the wrong way a bit.. it might be due to his somewhat pretentious-intellectual-communist- social center-arrogant-supercilious-know-i t-all demeanor, which annoys me a little... furthermore, I think that since the 1990s he has been praised maybe even more than he deserves (best composer of the 20th century), since he died prematurely, thus immediately and inevitably becoming a myth, a legend, etc...
     
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  • Felo
    Felo
    12 sep 11
    I agree. Absolutely Free, Jazz From Hell, Freak Out!, Uncle Meat, Hot Rats are beautiful records. But as someone once said in a definition, they are talked about much more than they are actually listened to. Many who discuss them hardly know them at all (damn, Zappa's discography is immense). Then there’s the so-called legend "If you don't like Zappa, you don't understand shit," and many force themselves to like it, even if they don't listen to it at all.
     
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  • j&r
    j&r
    13 sep 11
    .."if you don't like Zappa you don't understand a damn thing" ..but who the hell is this Zappa??..Beethoven....it's not like if someone doesn't like Zappa, they automatically don't understand a damn thing about music..take my brother for example, he listens to Wagner, Berlioz, Verdi, Mozart, Gluck, and Mussorgsky, yet he can't stand Zappa..he says he composes "a bit more refined music for bumper cars/video games/news jingles"...he's exaggerating, but Zappa isn't better than Hendrix, Pink Floyd, Wyatt, Tom Waits, Beefheart, or King Crimson, it's just different...
     
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  • j&r
    j&r
    13 sep 11
    ..I want to clarify..it's not that he exaggerates..he's just saying something ridiculous...however, this proves and strengthens the thesis I wanted to demonstrate..that is, that, despite being a person of excellent and refined musical tastes, my brother just can't seem to enjoy it...
     
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  • Felo
    Felo
    13 sep 11
    But then preferring Zappa over Wyatt, Hendrix, or King Crimson is a matter of taste, because, objectively, they are all great artists.
     
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  • Felo
    Felo
    13 sep 11
    *to Hendrix
     
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  • j&r
    j&r
    13 sep 11
    ...for example for me, it's a matter of taste, the King Crimson are much better than Zappa...period.
     
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  • j&r
    j&r
    13 sep 11
    ...a little better is a bit of an exaggeration...a little better...
     
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  • jdv666
    jdv666
    14 sep 11
    Well, Zappa wasn't really that much of a "communist-social-center type," actually in some of his pieces and interviews he strongly criticizes the hippie and alternative movements; sure, he was also critical of society, but I don't think he can be easily categorized into a specific orientation. As for the rest, I wouldn't know, he certainly had the reputation of a "dictator," but given the results, I can't complain too much ;) However, there are also groups/artists that I consider better, or at least that I appreciate more (Fripp, Eno, Wyatt, etc.).
     
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  • j&r
    j&r
    20 sep 11
    ..I also think crimson and wyatt are superior to zappa..also beefheart
     
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  • pirata
    pirata
    27 nov 11
    Yeah, sure, that piece of crap Lou Reed among the best singer-songwriters and then you don't include Woody Guthrie, what a damn insult.
     
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  • j&r
    j&r
    1 dec 11
    Well, Lou Reed is a genius.. come on, he wrote Berlin and Transformer.. try your hand at writing pirate music and let's see if you can come up with Berlin.
     
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  • ILM_igliore
    ILM_igliore
    15 dec 11
    Brian Wilson is missing...
     
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  • hjhhjij
    hjhhjij
    22 jan 12
    Beautiful chart, I agree with everything. Question: have you ever listened to anything by Peter Hammill as a solo artist?
     
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  • j&r
    j&r
    23 jan 12
    not yet... I need to remedy this gap as soon as possible... not now though... I'm in the midst of a full Hector Berlioz period... what a genius... the first PSYCHEDELIC musician in history!
     
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  • tonysoprano
    tonysoprano
    31 may 16
    Interesting ranking, even though I prefer De André to Springsteen.
     
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