lux

Percy, I would be a hypocrite if I didn't admit that I am the first to criticize, even harshly, those groups that don't appeal to me. Criticism is fine; in fact, it's essential, I would dare say, to discern what might have value from what does not. It's all about motivating it with a minimum of sense. And like every aspect of culture, music unites and divides at the same time because it is always contextualized and dependent on each individual's subjective perceptions. As you will have understood, my opinion on VU and the Stones is divergent, as I consider the former to be much more contemporary (having already revisited and expanded the ABCs of rock) than the latter, who I think have decisively stopped at the ABCs. And if we take hypothetical contemporary bands that are inspired by the Rolling Stones, I can only imagine how old they would sound... As for the awareness of what the VU were doing, I have never been interested; it would be a trial of intentions that wouldn't find practical ground. I just need to know that their music was self-aware. I agree that evaluating an album with historical consciousness is misleading to its value; in fact, I had already anticipated this in one of my earlier posts above. However, for me, some albums from the punk bands I mentioned are not only historically fundamental but also beautiful in themselves. I consider them stunning even when decontextualized from any historical period. Cheers!

Well, I believe that the exaltation of certain groups goes hand in hand with the denigration of others... it's a bit like self-gratification from being a member of a certain group (social, not musical) and adopting its values while hostilely rejecting "the other" who does not belong to the group, thus becoming an enemy. All of this creates and keeps alive the sense of belonging (musical, in this case), thanks to the dichotomy of "us-them." We all do this to some extent, not just j&r!

Percy, I study sociology, and I can tell you that j&r, aside from personal tastes that are not up for debate, is just a bit of a childish character who doesn’t know how to motivate his ideas (perhaps because he doesn't have well-defined and thoughtful ones of his own, and he relies on hearsay) and hides behind expressions typical of elementary school cafeterias like "QUEEN MERDA," which pairs with "MAMMA FATTO CACCA" or "PAPÀ FATTO PUPÙ," having the same, uh, speculative relevance. He is not a sociologically interesting case, and in situations like this, one needs to indulge him naturally, so that he tires himself out. So together: "QUEEN MERDA"!

I've already listened to them, great band but I still prefer the Pixies!

"As far as Dream Theater are concerned: apart from the Beatles, no band has invented anything." I really hope Nevskji was joking; otherwise, this might truly be the biggest load of crap ever said on Debaser. (I say this with all the affection possible towards him).

The album of the massacre. That’s how we could define "Train Of Thought."
The reviewer of the massacre (of nonsense). That’s how we could define Splinter.

"Is Sunday Morning not dated or There She Goes Again? ..... and is European Son not a child of its time, with its very much appreciated noise-psychedelic digressions during the same period as Grateful (Caution from Anthem Of The Sun, an album no less than VU & N), Pink (everything ummagumma), or Jimi in Third Stone From The Sun or 1983 from electric."--------> I think I’m speaking Arabic. I'm telling you that the Stones are inferior to ALL those guys you mentioned, not just to the VU. I don’t want to say if and to what extent the VU were the best in the world. I’ll just say that they are better than the Stones. Period.

j&r damn, it's 800 posts where I explain why the Stones are inferior to the other bands I've mentioned, and you talk to me about prejudices? Do you even read what I write? I'm waiting for a sensible reason why Queen would be shit.

j&r I'm talking about Dead Kennedys, or on the more post-core side Fugazi, Jesus Lizard, and on the Hardcore side Husker Du or Minor Threat or Rites Of Spring. I'm talking about Dinosaur Jr and Pavement (on the more indie low-fi side). Without punk, there wouldn't be post-punk, New Wave, or No Wave. So no Sonic Youth. Heck, there wouldn't even be a band like the Violent Femmes. Or Naked Raygun. Or the Pixies. Or Wire. Or Black Flag. Or Joy Division (which I don’t particularly adore anyway). Maybe Pere Ubu would have still existed, who knows. They were so far ahead of their time.

More than anything, I see "life" in Kim's bass playing. So much so that it's said "the band plays bass like the Pixies." Clearly, I'm not the only one who noticed this peculiarity of the bass! X-D