puntiniCAZpuntini

And I still can't understand what the hell any of this has to do with Cope's talk. Then I'm the one who goes on rants, but please.

The fact that the name Kraut-Rock is no longer used limits your perspective immensely. I still listen to plenty of Ambient Electronic or Drone records. Just because what Kraftwerk created is now called Electronic, it doesn't mean that it’s no longer being played, or that it’s dead. If there's something that still lives and continues to innovate, it is indeed electronics, and there's no denying it: it was born from the Kraut movement. I think that saying Kraut is dead is a massive load of nonsense, and you only say it because instead of listening, you read the names that are attached to it. The sound of Neu! has evolved into rhythmic electronics, the sound of Tangerine & Schulze has evolved into the drones of minimal ambient, and the more peculiar sounds of Can and Amon Düül still exist today and are still called space-rock. Warp clearly derives from the most extreme Kraut, and you can't say that Warp isn't very much active. The entire proposal that emerged under the name of "kraut-rock" still survives as a musical genre in many, many bands, even more than progressive. It has just found a more suitable name, and the technologies for reproducing it have changed. Names are meant to help us understand each other, not to limit our perspectives. The Kraut movement contained many things, but there's a clear and strong point in 90% of its groups: electronics, and it’s very much alive.

<<< Come on, please, a short post: just a yes or a no. >>> Wait, I said something simple, focused, and concise about a book by a specific artist. You turned it into a huge rant about the differences between Kraut & Prog... and you want a short post? If you don’t want rants, don’t create them, and you yourself stick to the point. If you expand the discussion into 800 variants, then don’t expect three words... eh.

<<< Progressive is a musical genre (yes, okay, very diverse, heterogeneous; the Gong are one thing, the Area are quite another), kraut-rock is a musical movement framed within a historical-musical context? >>> No, to put it in your terms: they are two movements. Born in the same period, developed both in parallel and by intersecting, and both have many variants with several psychedelic elements that connect them. Moreover, even though many Krauts played things belonging to other movements (see, indeed, the Prog of Duul), there are also several Krauts who created a sound that only they proposed at that time; consequently, saying that Neu! and Cluster are 100% Kraut as a musical genre is correct. It may have also taken the name of electronic ambient, but back then saying Kraut wasn’t at all a mistake.

You keep dodging the question: <<< I still don't understand what the hell this has to do with the fact that I find contradictions in Cope's book: do you think it's sensible to call Duul 1 a masterpiece and say that prog is crap? >>> This whole discussion started here. You've created 80 parallel discussions, always sidestepping the original and central one. Answer me.

This thing about fixed rules is really a load of crap. Every time you throw down basic and inconsistent rules, this "non-symmetric property" one is among your Oscars of delusion. Do you realize how awful this standardization of sounds and sensations in a "non-symmetric property" is? These are people expressing themselves, not multiplication tables.

<<< Well, but the length of time spent cultivating something is not always proportional to how much you can understand about it. >> Not always, okay. In this case, yes. In half a year, you haven’t had the actual time to absorb everything, so you’re just throwing out this avalanche of nonsense based on words and not on the central points of the music you’ve listened to. It’s pointless to bring up sets and Borghezio; you know those things, the progressive, NO.

<<< But then you're really clueless. :) The early Amon have prog-jazz-rock musicality (which are genres) and are part of the kraut-rock movement. The Suicide have electro-industrial musicality (which are genres) and are part of the no wave movement. Is that so hard to understand? Should I call the teacher? :D >>> Don’t play the “let’s change the subject” game with me, I’m good at it too. Look, I’ve never denied that Kraut contains millions of opposite things. I'm just telling you that PROG DOES TOO. So don’t flip the script on the point we agree on; the point of "disagreement" is prog, not Kraut. But let’s move on to your BULLSHIT. <<< Prog can't contain kraut. Logical. And mathematical. >>> That’s bullshit: Since Amon Duul 1 is a band belonging to Kraut, but also musicians who play Prog, within Prog... there’s also Kraut. And don’t twist the discussion back to Kraut; we agree on Kraut. And another thing, I still don’t get what the hell this discussion has to do with the fact that I find contradictions in Cope’s book: do you think it makes sense to call Duul 1 a masterpiece and say that prog is crap? Every time you take a sentence and start your rants about the words that make it up: if you want to contest the sentence, contest its meaning, not the words. And mathematical rules have nothing to do with music.

Geenoo, I'll spare you the effort: "Can and TD have a common bat." Read, absorb, think, breathe, then write.

Gong & Genesis have a uniformity. Area & Genesis, absolutely not. That Td & Can are different I've written myself, read carefully, as always.