puntiniCAZpuntini

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Here since 21 october 2003

Cluster & Eno Cluster & Eno

30 mar 06

Voto:

<<< But then you're really clueless. :) The early Amon have prog-jazz-rock musicality (which are genres) and are part of the kraut-rock movement. The Suicide have electro-industrial musicality (which are genres) and are part of the no wave movement. Is that so hard to understand? Should I call the teacher? :D >>> Don’t play the “let’s change the subject” game with me, I’m good at it too. Look, I’ve never denied that Kraut contains millions of opposite things. I'm just telling you that PROG DOES TOO. So don’t flip the script on the point we agree on; the point of "disagreement" is prog, not Kraut. But let’s move on to your BULLSHIT. <<< Prog can't contain kraut. Logical. And mathematical. >>> That’s bullshit: Since Amon Duul 1 is a band belonging to Kraut, but also musicians who play Prog, within Prog... there’s also Kraut. And don’t twist the discussion back to Kraut; we agree on Kraut. And another thing, I still don’t get what the hell this discussion has to do with the fact that I find contradictions in Cope’s book: do you think it makes sense to call Duul 1 a masterpiece and say that prog is crap? Every time you take a sentence and start your rants about the words that make it up: if you want to contest the sentence, contest its meaning, not the words. And mathematical rules have nothing to do with music.

Cluster & Eno Cluster & Eno

30 mar 06

Voto:

Geenoo, I'll spare you the effort: "Can and TD have a common bat." Read, absorb, think, breathe, then write.

Cluster & Eno Cluster & Eno

30 mar 06

Voto:

Gong & Genesis have a uniformity. Area & Genesis, absolutely not. That Td & Can are different I've written myself, read carefully, as always.

Cluster & Eno Cluster & Eno

30 mar 06

Voto:

Progressive = genre, it’s total bullshit, which highlights the fact that you don’t know what you’re talking about. If you’re not interested in the conversation, don’t know it, and don’t care to discuss it, just leave it alone, simple. The conversation about this is one you wanted to have. I remind you how it all started: Cope says that prog is shit, and I find that contradictory: because he claims that the first Duul, which is pretty much prog in music but kraut in belonging, is a masterpiece. So I wrote "borderline between kraut and progressive," because prog in music and kraut in belonging. You say it doesn’t make sense, that prog is a genre this and that... and then you tell me who gives a damn. If you don’t care, that’s fine, but don’t come tell me that I’m spouting bullshit about a genre that doesn’t interest you and that you don’t know, but that I’ve been following for ten years. Because the bullshit is coming from you: tell me, do you think Duul 1 isn’t between prog & kraut? What is it, between prog and punk, between techno and salsa? All prog? All kraut? Come on, enlighten me, instead of stopping a discussion that you can’t carry on but just took up to look cool.

Cluster & Eno Cluster & Eno

30 mar 06

Voto:

Without even changing groups, you find different things, eh? Red by Crimson has very little to do with the debut. Just as Tago Mago by Can is totally different from Babalooma. Not to mention that quite a bit of prog spills into psychedelia and vice versa; a lot of kraut also spills into both prog and psychedelia, and so the reverse is true as well. There are few genres where you can say, "this is called this, period," and the enormous variety of the prog landscape, in my opinion, does not allow for that. It's not just because there's a solo longer than 40 seconds that makes it prog. However, many albums can still be given a direction; take the debut of the first Duul band, which is clearly proggarolo.

Cluster & Eno Cluster & Eno

30 mar 06

Voto:

It’s clear that you don’t know much about progressive Enea. The same argument you make for Kraut can be made for prog. In both, you can align quite a few groups under the same thread, and the two threads have nothing to do with each other. Soft Machine and Area sound quite different from Genesis & Yes, but really quite different, yet the two pairs have some strong resonances with each other. Schulze is different from the Duul, but he has quite a bit in common with various TD, White Noise, and others. The early Duul II and the early Can have many things in common, and as mentioned, as you say, Can and TD have nothing in common. Prog is not at all a defined musical genre; if you say so, it seems to me you have quite a few listens left to explore. Here you can have fun: www.progarchives.com

David Gilmour Teatro Arcimboldi Milano 24.03.06

30 mar 06

Voto:

Why do I have to end up somewhere? What is it, a new law? It's obvious that the reasoning doesn't make sense; I haven't written any reasoning, I haven't. Can you explain to me what the reasoning would be?

Cluster & Eno Cluster & Eno

30 mar 06

Voto:

The phrase makes perfect sense. In progressive rock, although it’s a broad genre with various "shades," there is still a central mood that makes you go "okay, this is prog." In Krautrock, it’s the same thing. Even though both are wide movements, there are kraut elements, prog elements, and borderline elements. Also, the phrase "between mayonnaise and lemon" makes sense as well. You don’t count the factors that include something; you just calculate the final product. Otherwise, we might as well call everything "music," and Ramazzotti would be the same as Jimi Hendrix since they both use the guitar. Cope exaggerates and takes a stance beforehand, but he doesn’t spout nonsense. Besides, the albums you’re talking about, you’ve only recently listened to and overdosed on them suddenly, while he has seen them come out one by one and had the time to really listen to all of them. You’ve got a lot of bread and synth to consume before you label Julian Cope as a bullshitter, no worries.

Cluster & Eno Cluster & Eno

30 mar 06

Voto:

In England, they didn't have the same huge spirit of overturning everything. Beautiful is the phrase from one of the commune Amon Duul: "our fathers were the foot soldiers of Hitler, we wanted to be something different."

Cluster & Eno Cluster & Eno

30 mar 06

Voto:

I got the edited reprint of Kraurock Sampler last week. There are some strange contradictions between Progressive and certain borderline groups between kraut and progressive, like Amon Duul (one), which in the end are very, very prog. It’s hard to read a work that tries to be serious if you first read "prog is good for propping up little tables" and then that Psychedelic Underground is a masterpiece. Although, just looking at a photo of him and you understand everything. Anyway, it’s a very useful book that I should have read earlier: it would have saved me a ton of reading to discover a lot of bands. One thing is really ugly though: the cover.

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