puntiniCAZpuntini

But Del Piero's bird is all mine, remember that.

"Oh well, at least in the second post, you showed that you understood the issue." I got the issue right away, but I repeat, it had nothing to do with the starting point, and I couldn't care less about analyzing the term Borderline. It's just a damn word; not everyone is as messed up as you that has to dissect everything based on various meanings. You should try to understand the final sense of the matter, and that's it. The final sense of the matter was Cope and his book; who the hell cared about the cosmic rant you proposed. After you complained 800 times about this infinitesimal and pointless point, I finally responded... but it’s trivialities, and you manage to pull out even mathematical rules from it. But get real; you listened to two albums in a month, and now you're talking about the history of music when you arrived here not knowing anyone beyond Battisti. You go eat, while I, unfortunately, have to log off until next Wednesday. Eat well, and digest better, and if you find Miss Italia's hot chick, do some Plin Plin for me too.

<< E Boat-Woman-Song by Czukay in Canaxis V >> What the hell does Canaxis V have to do with modern electronics? Besides the fact that I have all those things, and you can't share anything private with me because I can't download, modern electronics derives from things that came later. Kraut comes from Stockhausen and his buddies, but Kraut has evolved the discourse A LOT to turn it into modern electronics. Warp derives from Kraut, and even if Kraut in turn comes from other things, it doesn't change the fact that Warp (and similar) derives from Kraut. Not from Stockhausen. You can't go into family lineages like Warp being the son of Kraut, who is the son of Varese, therefore Warp is the grandson of Grandpa Varese. It's music, and you can wipe your ass with family trees; it's pure pedantry that serves very little purpose.

<< And I stick to mathematical rules like you stick to your usual fanciful digressions, wrapped up in a typical cliché phrase like “Eat healthy and return to nature.” >> Too bad I know that “eating healthy and returning to nature” is nonsense, while you genuinely believe you’re saying something serious by applying fixed rules to music. But do me a favor.

"Come on, how many times do you have that little quarrel?" In fact, I wrote to you: THIS TIME.

"More kraut-rock has died, not electronic music. Which, unfortunately for you, didn't start with Faust and their crew." Noo, it started with the Roman tambourine players beating battle rhythms. But give me a break, the modern form of electronic music of various kinds is German. I've never heard any electronic artist say, "my sources of inspiration are Stockhausen and his cousin Karl Heinz," while I always read "kraut-rock, kraut-rock, kraut-rock." And before I read it, I hear it and realize it. You do the opposite; first you read about it online and then you listen. Your problem is the same as that of everyone who has been listening to music since the internet came along: you know who an artist is, where they come from, and who they are inspired by before you listen to them, and you form a preconceived notion based on your idea of what they've created. If instead you put on a record, listen to it, and decide for yourself what inspires you, you see that perceptions change, and they change drastically. When do you ever put on Autechre and think of Stockhausen... come on.

Point on the Borderline: I write borderline, and I emphasize borderline, because both Kraut and Progressive are movements (as you call them) that nonetheless share a musical genre. Not everyone sounds the same, but at least 80% of the elements that create them are very similar. The Area in prog are special, but the area includes many: Yes, EL&P, Camel, Genesis, and Gong all sound similar, so it can be said that prog, and that of those groups... even if there are people who interpret it differently, it can be said that prog is that. The same goes for Kraut, even if the Duul 2 sound different, and Can different from Duul... there are still a huge number of bands that sound exactly the same, like Schulze, TD organisation, Ash Ra, early Kraftwerk and various others, so in the end, it’s a matter of majority; Kraut is that: proto-electronic. And the Duul 1, by playing different things, become Borderline. But, in the end of it all, do you realize you're building a ridiculous rant on the word Borderline? They’re just words, and you manage to construct a fixed mathematical thought on top of them: you’re not doing well at all.

So the points are two. The point about Kraut Rock is dead: current electronics (because that's what you were talking about, saying it's dead) comes from Kraut. The fact that Stockhausen and all his buddies used the gadgets before them can show that Kraut comes from them (and also from Pink Floyd), but the fact remains that the modern form was given to it by them. Primitive things are what they are and will remain so. The modern form comes from those Germans, Kraftwerk, Tangerine, Neu! and various others. They are the ones who shaped rhythm and sounds into the form we know today. Because playing "let's go back" leads to the reality that even Stockhausen took from someone who in turn borrowed from another. Consider the finished product, as I told you before, not the millions of things that make it up. Hearing Stockhausen first and then Warp reveals an abyss of difference. Listening to Kraftwerk, Neu!, some things by Faust, and then Warp shows you evolution, but the concepts remain the same. You're spouting nonsense based on dates and little books; you don't listen to the records, you read about them in reviews. Spare me this nonsense, absorb the records you've been bombarding yourself with for a short time, read less and listen more, without thinking about dates or geographical origins. Let’s return to the discussion from last time that in the end, everything comes from the absolute genius ndggrrr, the one who first took a mammoth's femur and banged it on a stone, creating a sound.

And a little final note: <<< Uagh uagh uagh, always making a fuss. >>> A couple of idiots, this time you started the fuss, and it's quite amusing to me. I only talked about a book, you brought up the intergalactic nature of thought, mathematical rules applied to music, "this is always so" and "that is there in any case"... and all your usual bullshit about the fixed and unmovable cataloging of what is anything but reducible to predetermined schemes that you love to impose on yourself. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy your fuss, but don’t project your fuss onto me this time. A little squabble.

Now let's move on to the other: << He is right, it's just about distinguishing between movement and genre. >> No, that's not at all the point of the discussion. The discussion arises from the fact that I say the Dull can be considered Borderline between Kraut & Prog, since they are part of the Kraut movement while playing in a typically Prog manner, while for Enea, it is not correct. But Enea doesn't explain to me how he considers these Duul, if they are only Kraut, only Prog, or somewhere between Punk & Salsa Merengue. Enea is very good at shifting the focus of the discussion, but still hasn't said a damn thing about the clear point. First, he says that my statement (which said that the Cope issue is contradictory) makes no sense and that I'm talking nonsense; then he tells me he agrees with me on the Cope issue, saying that the Cope issue makes no sense… but if he agrees with me, how can what I wrote not make sense? So he's also saying nonsensical things and talking nonsense. And he even allows himself to "close the discussion," urging me to drop it. The overdose of Kraut from the last six months has somewhat confused him; he should assimilate the two things well (both Kraut and Prog), and then we can talk about it again. This discussion amuses me a lot because it's the first time Enea attacks on topics he knows nothing about (the Kraut-Prog relationship) and even contradicts himself, first telling me that what I say makes no sense, and then that he agrees with me. I can't let this opportunity to annoy Mr. "I impose the discussion on a term and not on the final concept of the sentence" slip away. Besides, this thing that electronics is dead really cracks me up.