easycure

Well, yes, if we're talking about taste we could end up discussing endlessly (or we would do it forever). I say no to solos, you say no to "emocore," period, as I already told Robi. Oh, but what instrument did you play?

hahahah : D sexual object, yes that too! But only sometimes...

Ingenuapupattola, I'm the one you didn't mention: the drummer! :D ..but don't worry, nobody ever notices (hear how I'm playing the victim!)

Robi, I think we have little left to say to each other: you see "homogeneous" DTs, impossible to solve as a useless "form," while I see them as totally incapable musicians, among the worst I have ever heard. I believe there’s nothing more to discuss, just differing opinions and that’s it. Great discussion, anyway ;)

Too much stuff to respond to, it’s a bit hard for me. ; ) Okay, with ninety thousand exceptions sure, but for me it applies to all genres, prog included... not all prog is that expressive (to me), I mean, listen to me, the drum solo of Colosseum after a while just grinds my gears... pointless... really, better the Ramones at that point... okay, I’m the first to admit it: there’s interpretation and interpretation, Jimi Hendrix can’t do without the solo, and we all agree, it’s as a general device that often troubles me, impossible not to see it as a useless show-off, OFTEN, not always, and anyway regardless of the genres...

Beautiful

Dude, it’s not about being an "Emocorer" : D.. and you know I listen to a ton of other stuff too; it's just that I definitely have a rather concise (which isn’t synonymous with simple or short) idea of the song... and indeed you must admit that in rock OFTEN (which doesn’t mean always) the solo is purely referential.. then, and here I admit it's purely a matter of taste, I repeat that the vast majority of solos (I mean almost all) really annoy me... it’s just that as a device I can’t stand it, as I've said, I like conciseness and humility.. that being said, there are beautiful solos, sure.. it's true: they can be the best part of the song, but more often than not, from what I’ve heard, they’re just an excuse to stretch it out by two minutes.

Wait, wait, Robi, my point is not at all to belittle the concept of arrangement; the great arrangement is what actually gives a new meaning to the very substance of the piece, intertwining with it and becoming an indispensable part of the work itself... it's just that there is arrangement and arrangement... there are groups, like the one in question above, that use it in a totally obsolete and therefore priority fashion... it’s all interpretation, the concept of theme exists, or rather, obviously it exists, but it's basically so useless that it becomes a function of the interpretation itself; the same goes for the use of effects; you’re wrong when you admit that effects are part of the arrangement (at least as you understand it, seeing it as more "confined" than I do), the sound and effects can in turn be the very essence of the piece. Essentially, and here I correct myself first, arrangement and composition are two elements that are definitely quite changeable and surely compensatory... the point I was accusing the DT of earlier, just to clarify definitively, is the way they use both of these elements.

Well, you see, you put together riffs and solos, which are two VERY different things... the riff is a theme, the solo is not. The solo is composed, okay, but afterwards; it’s not the solo that makes the song, it’s the song that, if anything, requires the solo.

What does a solo have to do with composition? Of course you compose it, but its functionality in the piece is practically none. Composition is the creation of a theme, and potentially variations on it; a theme doesn't just appear fully structured... because when you compose a theme, you already decide that it will be repeated three times, it will be interspersed with a bridge or a solo, and it will have an intro and an outro? Any structural element is a posteriori in composition... and the solo is merely a convention, a stylistic choice, but it's useless for compositional purposes (in fact, as you've noticed, many genres do without it), and it is functional (almost always) only to the overall form of the piece; that is purely an arranging matter. Obviously, every genre (every musician) has their own way of interpreting the piece... it's clear that if you take a song from the Grateful Dead, arranging and composition actually coincide... but the Grateful Dead had a completely instinctive approach, not sequential like most bands do. As for DT, let's not even go there... at a thematic level, meaning compositional, they are completely devoid of inventiveness; at an arranging or interpretative level, or however you want to call it, they are at best merely academic, absolutely useless.