Mike76

@ Blackdog: Yes, in "Harry" Murphy is truly "Dracula in the Caribbean," I love that b-side. I knew Corgan had also performed during the American reunion tour of Bauhaus, but I wasn't aware of Reznor's devotion, though I'm not surprised. No, I don't have "The modern dance" :-( (shame!), I guess I’ll have to order it since I've never been able to find it on a store shelf. If it's better than "Dub Housing" (which is already a fantastic album), it must really be a masterpiece.

Yes, I might know which individuals in their monochrome wardrobe you're referring to; I can understand you... I also sometimes find myself hating certain things (even non-musical) just because of the characters surrounding them, an attitude I know is wrong but one I often fall into as well. Thank you for the chat.

I want to clarify that I'm not anti-American at all, Pretazzo. By the way, out of curiosity, could you tell me which groups from the late '70s drew influence from TV?

A quirky non-review that makes an interesting list of people who have borrowed something or a lot from the Television. What I find noteworthy is that many of these are Americans who were inspired by the TV even 10, 20, or 30 years after the release of this album, while many English new wave groups had already taken advantage of Verlaine’s best insights right from the start, drawing inspiration for other masterpieces or anyway very interesting albums. I'm making this point to dismantle the "Americentric" and "anti-British" thesis of Scaruffi, according to which "what is creative in New York becomes status in England." WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP! Even in the U.S.A., insights become standards (especially the crap), it’s just that they are so dim-witted that they catch on a few decades late compared to the English, who know how to better appreciate the good things that come from across the ocean. Just think that "Marquee Moon," when it was released, was hardly noticed in the U.S.A.; it didn't even make it to the top 150 positions on the charts, while in England it was featured on the cover of NME and reached the 33rd position on the charts. NEMO PROFETA IN PATRIA; perhaps in '77 the American audience was too busy listening to Springsteen or the Eagles to notice the Television. After 25 years, however, the Strokes showed up... I conclude with a LONG LIVE ENGLAND, because if it weren't for them, no one would know the Television (not even Scaruffi), and they would have sold records only to their relatives and friends.

And then one last thing, let’s go back to the beginning: “English New Wave overrated in its entirety” but by whom? Certainly not by the record labels that have left out a ton of New Wave albums from their catalogs for years (and some are still hard to find or unavailable), certainly not by the mass media (it's extremely rare to find anything on the radio or on TV), and even MTV, which you mention in relation to New Wave, has played very little of it, at most some songs from a few surviving bands like The Cure or Depeche Mode or some big commercial hits like "Tainted Love" or Duran Duran. And if the music magazines at home often praise New Wave albums, I think it's a "genuine" thing driven by passion and certainly not by money handed out by some record executives.

But then, were these British groups really as similar as you say? Indeed, many had in common the fact that they were not cheerful, but there was a difference between one type of "NON-cheerfulness" and another. I think of "In The Flat Field," and I feel it as visceral, damned, dark; then "Seventeen Seconds," which I perceive as gray, lost, detached; then "Kaleidoscope," which I find more disoriented and a bit sinisterly fairy-tale-like. They are all albums from 1980 and all thrown into the dark pot, yet they are all quite different, in my opinion. The "dark-romantic" aspect was not as standardized as you say, or at least not before 1982. And anyway, there were bands that had very little to do with dark-romantic: XTC were four mischievous party animals, Gang Of Four were angry, leftist types, and Soft Cell were frustrated and bored dandy-gays...

@Blackdog: did Cobain really say that about the Bauhaus? I don't know why, but I've always felt a vague resemblance between "Double Dare" and "Heart Shaped Box."

The issue of MTV is the one that interests me the least; personally, I think it would have emerged with or without the new wave. Then again, you yourself admit to enjoying bands (Japan, Cure) that particularly focused on their look, so the problem doesn’t arise. It’s superficial to listen to an artist only for their appearance, but it’s equally superficial to snub them simply because they are particularly “flashy.” Personally, if there is good music, the cult of image doesn’t bother me.

Here I am again! So, Easy, thanks for the clarifications. When you said "bourgeois and pretentious," you actually meant to "call out" only the TALKING HEADS. Thank goodness, I thought you were involving the whole Big Apple. Byrne and companions are not even among my favorites, but I do recognize their value and originality. However, I honestly find that their influence on the English wave is akin to that of the B52's or Suicide, which is to say, almost none.
The TELEVISION, on the other hand, have undoubtedly been influential in the UK (Siouxsie and the Banshees for sure, but perhaps also Gang of Four and others). Tom Verlaine and his big hands deserve eternal gratitude for sparking that dry and minimal guitar style that was previously unheard of, and also for releasing that little gem "Little Johnny Jewel" back in 1975, perhaps one of the first tracks that can be called "new wave." However, it must be said that if it weren't for the stunning title track, an album like Marquee Moon would be "just" a good album and not a masterpiece: the other tracks have a more conventional structure, and alongside the excellent "new" guitar work persist some old-school rock solos. Then there's a track like "Prove It," which resembles Ben E. King's "Stand By Me".... In short, while it's true that the Brits made good use of the innovations in this fundamental record, it's equally true that they only picked up and developed its best aspects (and I think that's a good thing, though you may see it as a flaw).
As for PERE UBU, I really like them even though unfortunately I only have "Dub Housing." They too, like Devo, have been influential in the UK, though now I'm struggling to determine which English band owes them the most. We're talking about 1978, when a handful of English bands had already debuted or were debuting unaware of their existence. Assuming anyone in the UK listened to them, the tracks recorded by Ubu prior to their debut were still immature and far from the results they later achieved; I listened to them years ago but they didn't leave a lasting memory. You are right, however, in saying that in the UK no one had the courage to experiment so radically as Pere Ubu did (except maybe P.I.L., Wire's 154, and early Clock DVA). Honestly, I don't feel that Television and Talking Heads are any more or less experimental than many other English bands.

I remember that :Wumpscut: had actually made something good, there were some tracks that were really part of his repertoire. I have the reprints of two EPs, Dried Blood + Ghomorra, and the valid tracks are few, while the lyrics are the usual cheap macabre-gothic mishmash.