c'è Banned

then it’s clear that when you listen to White Summer-Black Mountain Side like I’m doing right now, you can’t help but agree with Jimmy Page, he did absolutely the right thing, it’s one of the most beautiful solos ever

Well, I really believe that Johnny Cash credited Trent Reznor, even though Trent Reznor often says that song no longer belongs to him :D. Another story is when you listen to "Black Mountain Side" by Zeppelin and see Jimmy Page in the credits, when instead it only takes listening to "Black Water Side" by Bert Jansch to understand that something doesn’t add up, and you could do this for the entire debut album of Zeppelin, which for me remains their best, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a collage of plagiarism-citations-homages that’s quite scary, from "Dazed And Confused" to "How Many More Times" (which I think holds the record). The best way to grasp what I’m trying to say, in my opinion, is to listen carefully to "Whole Lotta Love," and then five seconds later listen to "You Need Loving" by the Faces, with Marriott on vocals, from one or two years before Led Zeppelin II.

What is the standard of judgment? If great artists draw inspiration from small artists, it’s not plagiarism, but if small artists take inspiration from great ones, then it is? Is the measure of plagiarism the size of the artist involved? I don’t think so. Jimmy Page often drew from things that most likely no one would ever listen to again if not to see exactly where Page had taken his influence from. But what he made of it was something completely new; however, taking a bass line or anything else without crediting anyone else in the credits is plagiarism. Even the beautiful "Hotel California" is plagiarism at the expense of Jethro Tull ("We used to know" the song). Although it's a stunning song, it is pure and simple plagiarism. And it doesn't matter that the song it drew from wasn’t famous at all; it remains plagiarism.

And in fact I totally contest this statement: "if great artists draw inspiration from other equally authoritative pieces, it is not a case of plagiarism."

You're mistaken, psychopompe :D the riff from Black Night wasn't taken from the Blues Magoos, it was taken from "Summertime" by Rick Nelson; the Blues Magoos also plagiarized that song (from their album Psychedelic Lollypop from 1966, if I remember correctly, very very nice). As for Zucchero, he's a lost cause; half of his songs have been taken from Joe Cocker (a clear example is "Diavolo in me," which is exactly the same from start to finish as "High Time We Went"). By intellectual honesty, I mean that if, for instance, psychopompe, who was convinced that that riff came from the Blues Magoos, and believed they were the ones who had been plagiarized (like one might argue about the Jet song and Lust For Life), now goes to download Summertime by Rick Nelson, which is a song from the 50s (just like "Radar Love" and "You Can't Hurry Love" are much earlier than Lust For Life), inevitably the judgment changes. Then it's clear that, as Psycho says, the judgment refers to a single song. The judgment of the Jets in general, I believe, is the same for everyone. Anyway, by now we're starting to get used to the derived sound; one of the few things I can listen to these years are the White Stripes, and some time ago I liked the debut of Wolfmother, not to mention the Strokes and their crowd.

Actually, I ask psychopompe, who is the only one who has intervened in this discussion and whom I know possesses a bit of intellectual honesty.

I only ask you to compare the riff of "You Can't Hurry Love" by the Supremes to that of "Lust For Life," and then know that that riff was deliberately and openly taken from that song as a tribute. And then compare the Jet song to Radar Love by Golden Earring. They were so lacking that in their attempt to plagiarize Golden Earring, it seems they ended up plagiarizing Iggy. If that for you means comparing the Jets to the Stooges, then you are really off track. Some time ago, the producer of Get Born was asked if Iggy had the grounds to sue the Jets for that riff, and the producer replied: Iggy no, but Golden Earring yes.

"The Stooges"? What the hell, have you all been possessed by a Romanian or what? The Stooges, the Stones. As for Lust For Life: "co-written by Iggy Pop and David Bowie, the song is known for its Motown Shuffle drumbeat which opens the song. The rhythm was originally used in the song You Can't Hurry Love, written by the Holland-Dozier-Holland songwriting team and performed by The Supremes." And now here comes the genius who will say: "Damn, but the Stooges didn’t copy, that inspiration is, the Jet (and I'm also trying to act cool by pretending I don't know the name of the single that I actually know very well) are the copycats, damn."

Given that I don't give a damn about the discussion and even less about the Merdena: "do I vote one for your neurons"? DO I? DO I???? I give a 1 to your Italian teacher (because they’re all women).

absolutely