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all the Genesis fans going crazy for this album. Honestly, I can’t stand Pippo Collins' voice on Supper's and other tracks from the Gabriel era. I prefer the rougher texture of Live with the more visceral tracks from the early period (except maybe Musical Box).

"Genesis Live" is indeed nice (like the live at Rainbow, probably the best live album by Genesis with Gabriel) but, objectively, it’s a little less well-played (but who cares, the effect is excellent) and much less well-sung. Flame, on stage Gabriel was fantastic as a showman, a "priest," and a mask but definitely less so as a singer, limited by the theatrical performances, the masks, and all that stuff. Talking about Genesis, live Collins was much better (on record, though, to be there, you know how great it was to see one of their concerts in '72, for instance). And then, excuse me, but okay, let’s say what you’re saying makes sense, it's your taste, but to me it always seems like classic Gabriel fundamentalism, a prejudice, a mental flaw, at least in part (and I emphasize "in part" because I myself, as you can read, don’t appreciate some of Phil's interpretations of the pre-'75 repertoire, with certain flourishes and twists and "na na" and "la la" that he throws in...). So, well, I wonder how you can stand Collins singing the Gabriel repertoire when Collins has always sung in those songs? He was the one doing all the harmonies and backing vocals; his voice and Gabriel's were interchangeable, sometimes they blended together, it’s one of the reasons they chose him as a replacement. Collins is the best possible singer to perform those songs; I never really get along with all the Hackett-type singers in the Revisited on those repertoires, just to say. Although he might be less convinced in interpreting those stories compared to Gabriel (but that's normal, that's fine), Collins, for example, on Supper is good, he does a nice job on a very difficult piece. Let’s say he’s hit or miss on the old repertoire, but it feels strange to hear someone struggle with Collins' voice on the Gabriel-era songs when it’s a voice that has always been there, it’s the most similar to Gabriel’s possible, as Pietruzzo himself said after seeing them on the "A Trick of the Tail" tour. Then, well, there’s also the rest of the band; for this reason, in the end, Seconds is a bit better than the live albums with Gabriel; in '76-'77 they were at their peak.

Oh sorry, I didn't get it: in what sense "excluding Musical Box"?

Got it, it sounds to me like a "ugh ugh, those songs were sung by Gabriel and no one else should sing them, oh" :D While at the end the dwarf's interpretations are good. Obviously, he’s more comfortable with the songs that were composed with him already on vocals, but in general, considering the superb performance of the band, Collins' presence on vocals in the old repertoire doesn’t seem like a significant factor to me to say "I don't get what everyone is saying that this live show is cool"?

No prejudice against Collins, to the point that I can even digest some very '80s stuff from Genesis that would understandably be hard to swallow for anyone (like in too deep ... brrr we shiver). Two things, though. In my opinion, the two don’t have such similar voices, quite the opposite. The fact that you like Collins on the early repertoire pieces and not Hackett comes from the fact that Collins has a singer’s voice (meaning not only in tune, but capable of carrying a piece). Secondly, for me, the pieces from the Gabriel era were written with the thought that he would sing them, and Collins's voice (with its desire to be delicate at all costs, e.g., Carpet) completely alters their essence (for me). They are just small nuances, mind you, but they are bothersome for me. For example: a passage like Willow Farm or the reprise after the solo by Tonino Banks is only meant for Gabriel (the Gabriel of that time, not today’s Michelin man).

"excluding Musical Box" in the sense that it’s in the Live setlist but I wouldn’t consider it among the most punchy tracks from the early period, meaning the more aggressive ones.

Wow... If it isn't one of the most intense pieces, "The Musical Box"... Tell the truth, did you skip ahead after the first two minutes? :D Joking aside, that's one of the most electric and "rock fury" tracks in their repertoire, even though it alternates with acoustic parts. I think it's only behind "Return of the Giant Hogweed" (after all, Nursery is mucho electric and mucho "gut-driven" as you say) and "The Knife" in this sense (and a little bit of The Lamb). Anyway, aside from these little details, no, I wasn't clear: not Hackett, he would never sing Supper's Ready by himself, he's not that foolish. I meant the singers chosen by Hackett in his various Revisited projects.

"In my opinion, the two don’t have such similar voices," Well, sorry, but this isn’t a matter of taste here. Let's be clear, they have different voices, different timbres and styles, that's obvious, but they're quite similar, at least comparable, which is why Gabriel and Collins were so well matched in the various call-and-response songs, often duetting with Collins in the background. The timbres are somewhat similar (which doesn’t mean identical or even extremely alike), with Collins's being more delicate and clean but still fitting together. Think of a "Squonk" written when Gabriel still had one foot in but later performed by a Collins who was "doing Gabriel," precisely. Well, that's a great track. You say, "the songs from the Gabriel era were written with the idea that he would sing them," and you're right, but also considering that Collins would often sing behind him, they were more tailored to Collins than to any other possible substitute. In my opinion, you've overlooked the detail that Collins has always been, since his arrival, the second singer of the band, so who was the more suitable substitute? Then you’re absolutely right, sometimes Collins, rightly, puts his stamp on it but can miss the interpretation, maybe sweetening it and fluffing it up too much. On the other hand, I’m not saying Collins sings the "Gabriel" repertoire better than Gabriel, just that he was the most suitable possible substitute, simply the second voice turning into the first; the effect isn’t always perfect but most of the time for me it flows smoothly.

"Willow Farm" is something I strongly disagree with: it’s the best part of the suite sung by Collins. He is a showman, a much more natural showman and joker than Gabriel, and he has fun with that part because it’s a crazy section that you can twist around a bit however you like. I agree more that Collins sometimes imbues an excessive "sweetness" and some vocal embellishments even when unnecessary; I’m not disputing that, really. I just say that no one else, aside from the one who decided to leave, could sing the '71-'74 repertoire better than the second voice of the '71-'74 repertoire ;) He didn’t do flawlessly in all the songs, okay, but most of the time his voice in those songs comes across as quite natural, after all. To give you an example, I cite Gabriel himself (not that he has the absolute truth on the matter, but, well, it’s significant) who, going to see them in '76, thought both that Phil wasn’t entirely comfortable interpreting certain songs and certain lyrics written purely by Peter for Peter, and that there was no better singer to replace him because they had always sung "together" many old pieces and that it was the most valid choice especially for moving forward with the new songs, as it gave a sense of "continuity" (then again, Gabriel once said he believed Collins was a more prepared singer than him, and that’s probably true, but that’s another story, and I still prefer Pete).

Ah then... If we base ourselves on studio albums, it's obvious that an original "The Musical Box" will always be better than any version sung live by Phil. But live for live, there's always that conversation that Gabriel didn't really deliver so well... Too little care for his voice (something he always said himself; in the early years he didn't behave like a professional singer) too many masks (try singing well with a fox mask or the Slipperman costume on your head, come on) too much spectacle at the expense of vocal performance. In a way, Collins LIVE sang Supper much better than Gabriel he he he But now I'm being picky, just so you know :D

"and Collins' voice (with her desire to be delicate at all costs, e.g. Carpet) Collins who dueled with Gabriel throughout the chorus on Carpet. But yes, here as a solo voice she missed the mark because she turned the entire song into the softer register of her second voice on the original track, which worked in contrast to Gabriel's lower timbre. On Carpet I agree I've never liked Collins' version, it happens."

On some things we see it differently, there's not much more to say. Regarding Gabriel's live performances during the G period, I’ve heard that it wasn't the best considering how he was dressed (like the tights over his face in Epping, which is among other things very wordy). I also have a video of them at the Piper (if I'm not mistaken) where he completely ran out of voice and is only producing muffled screams. What you say about his opinion on Collins, I believe you read it in the bio published in Italy by De Agostini (De Agostini publishes Genesis...?). Strictly speaking about the Genesis Live album, I like his vocal performance in there, raw as you want, but it has now become part of me. As for Collins being the best second choice on those tracks... I don't know, it's probably true. I don't think he has ever tackled stuff like "Back in N.Y.C." because that's not really bread for his teeth.

"but it’s now part of me" Yes, but that’s a totally subjective thing. I would never question your purely subjective/affective opinion (by the way, in "Live" I’m not saying you sing like shit, eh, maybe in the studio they cleaned it up a bit, that’s standard practice). I was trying, purely for the sake of discussion, to bring the conversation to at least a partly more objective level, like the issue of the vocal relationship between Pietro and Filippo; that's something clear that's there, in the grooves of the albums. That's why the handover was so natural. Beyond the fact that certain tracks from the old repertoire with Collins as the lead voice don’t hold up as well, that’s just how it is. "I don’t think he ever tackled anything like 'back in N.Y.C.'" Ah, that without a doubt. In general, The Lamb vocally, but also musically at certain moments, sees Gabriel already projecting into things very close to what he would later do with Fripp in his second solo work (oh dear, solo, let’s say in duo with Fripp), The Lamb is a mini-world in itself, and surely as a singer Collins knows that, in some moments more than others, he is the furthest away from his style. You do know that it’s Phil’s favorite Genesis album, right? He has always been, along with Gabriel, the most open to other experiences and collaborations back then; he was the most supportive of experimentation (Banks HATES The Lamb :D). Now, I’ve read about The Lamb and Phil in a thousand different parts, so I consider it fairly reliable. I don’t know how reliable this statement of his is, but I’ll share it anyway: the track he prefers from The Lamb would be "The Waiting Room." Got it who the hell Mr. Gne Gne was in the '70s? :D

"The track he prefers from the Lamb would be 'The Waiting Room', yes I read that somewhere too. And it's also one of my favorite pieces from the album, one of the few I know from the period when the quirky sounds of the early synthesizers are used fantastically, without revealing that they were early experiments. Banks was/... is perhaps still (I’ve lost track of him musically) a genius, it’s a shame he somewhat stifled this experimental talent and chose to stay in his comfort zone (at least that’s my impression listening to his solo albums in a patchy way)."

I will gladly hear

You'll love it a lot.

I was waiting for you.

At the same time in my player (or in my headphones) the live and the debut :D

how much I loved this album...

Well, I understand.

Tough group, great job like everyone until "Free Hand" at least.

For me, up to "Interview" (but also partly "Missing Pieces") is still on good levels, but I agree that the best is up to "Free Hand" (beautiful, it grows in appreciation over the years). But I consider this one to have an extra gear.

I already said that I love them and that I have to hit myself for not listening to them as often as they deserve?

You are not alone.

Oh I know, you love them more than me and with an age-related precedence. But hey, the Gentle Giant has love for everyone :-) I adore "Alucard," "Nothing at All," and it's impossible not to move your butt during the ending of "Why Not," which, by the way, has one of their most beautiful British-folk-bard-medieval inserts of all time. Tears.

If you want to delve into something related to their Medieval-Folk style, I recommend listening to a gem recorded before their first album, Freedoms Child, the calling card of Kerry Minnear, the definitive click for the creation of the sound perfected in the first album. It’s a track of infinite sweetness, with a spine-chilling vocal refrain.

I just listened to it. A beautiful piece, now I'm suffering because it wasn't included in any studio album? I will try to get that compilation, oh my, I believe it's one of their most beautiful tracks, even...

By the way, I also saw that there are tons of live shows by the GG, a vast amount of material that I haven't listened to yet, how nice.

The track, along with others, was not used later because it served to bridge the gap between the PsychPop of Simon Dupree & The Big Sound and the new lineup, which had different ambitions. These tracks, according to them, were recorded by an "other band" that was neither one nor the other, just an embryo kept hidden until 1997. If I had been a record producer, I would have released a couple of 45s without hesitation, and perhaps Freedom Child would have even made it onto the charts.

One of the greatest debut albums of all time. I join you in this infatuation...

Also because, really, it feels like one of those tracks potentially destined for melodic immortality, I'm falling in love with it. True that it's a ballad perhaps too linear for the superb inventions even of the debut, but it would have elevated any album that included it. This section "halfway" between Simon Dupree and Gentle Giant was obscure to me, and I’ll happily delve deeper into it.

As I always say, in the series "Gaber a teatro" I wouldn't know where to look to choose my favorite. This is a great quote, especially since this is the album/show with the highest number of quotes in the discography of "Gaber theatrical."

I never explored Gaber, unlike other Italians that I’ve appreciated and listened to for some time. In the future, we’ll see; for now, I have other priorities, but I’ll make a note of it.

Just last night, I was discussing some of his more political songs with a friend. Great artist, great man, even though I don’t know him that well.

Just last night, I was discussing some of his more political songs with a friend. Great artist, great man, even though I don’t know him that well.

Instead, this one might be my favorite, but it's tough. There could also be "Polli d'allevamento," as you mentioned, or even "Libertà Obbligatoria."

Oh YES.

Notable solos?

No, nothing memorable.

I had the cassette, then it disintegrated. An enormous potential not realized. Anyway, some instrumental sections are of value.

Like the first minute of "Imagining," which messes with you and then turns into the typical pop-rock-aor track that I can't stand...

Indeed it is so. However, the 2 instrumentals are not bad. For me, initially, the foundations for a structurally elevated work were available. But with the '80s, so much had changed, and many musicians had to "adjust." Perhaps, but this is just my thought, in certain cases, such gifted musicians can "elide" each other. Perhaps it was necessary to explore alternative lines of thought.

The 2 instrumentals are the best tracks, very enjoyable, plus a couple of catchy songs are still quite nice. And the rest, no...

In my opinion, it's a poor album even by the already not-so-high standards of AOR.

For me too, a completely disappointing album. Everything: the sounds, the melodic ideas, the watered-down progressive pop genre, the guitars that do nothing memorable, the late eighties atmosphere, the worst ever for rock. Everything. I have it and I never listen to it.