egothemaster

Anyway, I see that my constant calls for serious and moderate debate mean nothing on strangler. A bit on laghèè, but on strangler, really nothing. Who knows, maybe one day it can grow. I sincerely wish it well. That way it will learn the value of dialogue and not the disvalue of confrontation a priori.

And then, strangler... come on, now you've really reached the limit of the ridiculous... Look, I’m truly sorry to say this, because it somewhat contradicts what I've been writing from the beginning in this forum (and I would have preferred it to remain the only topic, regardless of my or your political beliefs... because it was a discussion about the METHOD of political-social debate, not about the merits of one’s convictions). But making statements like yours clearly shows you scrambling for excuses (and you’re not even doing it that well) and denying reality. You want to say that in Genoa there weren’t (and that substantial groups of terrorists didn’t act) armed with stones, Molotovs, and other things I don't even know about because I don't deal with such things, nor will I ever, with the precise purpose of destroying, setting fire to, and whatever else? But WHERE DO YOU LIVE? And still, I haven’t “heard” you make any, not even the slightest self-criticism so far... I have admitted several times that I don’t agree with certain members of the League and even some ideas… but you, never. I call yours INTEGRALISM, meaning that the RIGHT, ALL AND ONLY THE RIGHT, is on one side: yours. It's simply ANTI-DEMOCRACY IN ITS PUREST FORM, RACISM, INTOLERANCE, THINKING YOU'RE THE CHOSEN ONES, INCORRUPTIBLE, PERFECT. It’s precisely the ethical ideology that led to communist and Nazi totalitarianism. Just think about it... Maybe you should take a history and philosophy course; it would do you some good. Okay, sorry for the nasty remark, it doesn't really suit a liberal like I consider myself. Ah... “fascist thugs like you”… come on…! Is there really no sense of the ridiculous, then…! We’re in pretty bad shape, indeed.

Dear laghèè, are you suggesting that, in your opinion, members of the League go (or have gone) around destroying the offices of other parties? I know some of the leaders, and I can assure you that violence is the antithesis of their thoughts and actions. There are indeed rotten apples in the League, those who play your game. They are the characters I mentioned earlier. The difference is that those only talk. The No-Global, the ones from the Social Centers, the Brigadists, the Naziskins, etc., they are the ones who beat, destroy, kill, and commit terrorism.

The racist behavior you mention, I don't see it. I repeat, yes, I see the attitudes (limited to two or three figures: Borghezio, Boso, and Gentilini) which, among other things, I DO NOT AGREE WITH AT ALL, but as I said before, there is a big difference between attitude (or symbolic provocation) and actual behavior. So, those who complain about my lack of arguments (and I truly don’t understand how they can do that) should tell me when exactly the Lega Nord has engaged in racist behaviors and discrimination. Real and tangible facts, not words from representatives that of course don’t follow up with real actions.
I only see the actual behaviors (which I mentioned earlier) coming from one side, so let’s stop generalizing: the LEGA IS A VICTIM OF INTOLERANCE (if it’s not enough for you to know how the Lega is discriminated against day after day with what I have pointed out to you, and which you should have already known and remembered... I really don’t know what else to say...). So, there are those who should tone it down more than others. I find it necessary to dot the "i". Without being arrogant and violent... just calmly stating one’s opinions.

The facts, dear IMHO, are also these. Besides ongoing episodes of violent protests against Borghezio or Berlusconi, the violence like that in Milan, the G8... and many others... What have been similar episodes from the League? I mean... where do you live? On Mars? Okay, grant me this last joke...

I know that within the Northern League's voter base and among some of its representatives, there is a vein of racism; I am aware of it. But the fact is that these people, like you, distort the political message of the Northern League, even though they may vote for it or be actively involved. And then politics is also about this... "they're always votes." Extremism isn't a real problem as long as it remains limited to provocations and is kept under control. The real issues arise when it moves to action. And the facts are all against the League, which every day (I know because I have seen it personally) finds its headquarters damaged, defaced, sometimes set on fire... by whom? I leave the answer to you.

So... think what you want. I reaffirm that there is absolutely nothing racist in the League and its ideas, because it is about enhancing one's cultural identity, demanding respect for the rules of the society (the so-called legality) in which the "not yet citizen" finds themselves (because fortunately, the rules of the Western system are based on democracy and freedom), demanding respect for one's own culture, religious faith, and so on (against terrorism, therefore), and controlling the flow of migration, because making people believe that Italy is the Promised Land that can guarantee a job for everyone is irresponsible. I mean: when an immigrant enters a country, convinced they will find the Promised Land, a secure job, etc... and then perhaps finds themselves with no place to stay, no job because the economy is going through a serious crisis, what can they think and do? No one says that non-EU citizens come to Italy to commit crimes... for many of them, committing crimes becomes an unavoidable choice. Yet the principle of legality, on which all legal societies are based, cannot allow this to happen. That's all. Where is the racism? I see it in those who judge others based on preconceived notions. You decide...

I mean... but dear strangler... what have I done to harm you? Since the moment you entered, you've responded by ridiculing me (and my ideas), showing a hostility that I really don't understand the reason for... At the beginning of this whole discussion, I felt I "entered" with undeniable calmness and tranquility. I've never personally attacked anyone, except for small "defenses" against others' attacks.
In short, I certainly don't want you to think like me... I don't want you to become a member of Lega... the core of my argument was something else (which I've reiterated on EVERY OCCASION): why should I be labeled for the ideas I hold? It’s even stranger because, as you've seen, I am a moderate... So I really don’t get it...!

Great strangler, keep going with your slogans...!

Of course they replied, without saying anything but just accusing, as you always do. I see the expulsion as a matter of power within the parliamentary group, in addition to Calderoli's actions, which I believe were entirely legitimate in principle, though certainly regrettable given the role he held. The truth is that Western society needs wake-up calls like the League, as it is falling asleep, a victim of do-goodism. But of course everyone has their own ideas. What I can't stand (I repeat for the THOUSANDTH time) is the vehemence and insults from those who don't think like me. What is democratic about that? What is democratic about the systematic delegitimization of the "different" from oneself in ideas? What kind of democracy do you want to implement? That's all... Why do you always avoid confrontation, hiding behind accusatory "stones" that lead nowhere, but only to remain entrenched in your own positions... destroying the ideas of others without trying to understand them? Don't you see that you are exhibiting an anti-democratic attitude? Is it possible that you don't realize this?