Chinaski82

When I heard Ain't Misbehavin', I was petrified!...tears in my eyes...the entire history of Jazz is encapsulated in this piece...an immense record that demonstrates how much more can still be said about "standards"...a friend of mine says that nowadays nothing can be "invented" anymore, that everything is a reworking...it may be an extreme idea, but at least in jazz, I wholeheartedly agree...this, which in theory should be a "conservative" record, is the quintessence of jazz music...KJ is the greatest, and here we reach the levels of Tokyo '96...and Gary's solo on Ain't Misbehavin' is phenomenal...anyone who loves jazz, but more generally anyone who loves music MUST listen to this record!

PS: the evaluation of a musical work changes if you play/study an instrument or not... it must be said that those who are "in the industry" almost always have an excessive technical-analytical approach (I was like that myself and it took a while to soften it)... sometimes by deconstructing a work, its essence is lost... this doesn't mean "to swallow everything without asking why"... but one must NEVER lose sight of the fact that a work of art must be COMMUNICATIVE!!!! and Manuel communicates, for sure!

If I had never mentioned the Wall of Sound, you wouldn't be so fixated... the Wall of Sound I'm talking about, the original, let's say, is the production technique "invented" by Phil Spector, with each instrument recorded on multiple tracks to reinforce the sound... don’t go reading Scaruffi and Ondarock and then come here acting all smart! Don’t twist what people say... for once LISTEN (or better yet, READ!)... "I simply don’t care about the lyrics of this album because the first step (that is the strictly musical one) was not passed by the dear Afterhours" ---> the first step? have ISO guidelines come out for musical evaluation?..."in the sense of having more awareness of what you listen to and understanding that in 2008, similar albums are historically unacceptable" ---> every now and then you throw in history, just off the cuff, and I realize that all the "constructive" discussions you could have with you go down the drain because of your damned arrogance and presumption!... unacceptable? Then neither are jazz trio albums acceptable! Do you realize how extreme you are? You "don’t care" about the lyrics, but at least ABSTAIN FROM JUDGMENT!!!! If you don’t read the lyrics YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND THE AFTERHOURS!!! Take any fan and they will tell you from memory what’s not in there, I want beautiful skin and so on... I myself got close to the Afterhours ESPECIALLY for the lyrics... they're certainly not the quintessence of musicians... Manuel strums the guitar, nothing more... but what should I do, criticize his way of playing? He’s not a Buckethead! He's a SONGWRITER... and anyone who writes "I care for the leaves that will be strong if I can ignore that the trees are dead" is, for me, a great artist and deserves a monument!!!! "And then don’t turn the table, but what 'evolve' do you mean, do you want me to listen to crappy albums?" ---> what table? what are you talking about? I want to make you listen to crappy albums? Do you consider Anime Salve and Pink Moon crappy albums? ... if that’s the case, then stay in your world and on your altar, you’re the one losing out. You're the one who is closed off and can’t see the beauty. Tough luck for you. Classic loser attitude!

"If a rock album (like this one by Afterhours) is poor"—then the same discussion applies. Your musical evaluation of the album, which I completely disagree with, can only be partial, given your LIMIT as an art consumer. Open your mind a bit instead of always staying stuck there. Evolve. When I was 15, I thought like that; I was a "music extremist"...by doing so, I would DISMISS A PRIORI everything that was not, according to my partial measure, "musically valid"...I was wrong! It's like considering only the technical aspects of cinema without taking into account the "plot," the "meaning," the "ideology" (if you'll pardon me using this term with due caution). Take "Pink Moon" by Nick Drake (the song)...it seems like a calm and serene piece...if it weren't for the fact that the Pink Moon is the Chinese symbol of DEATH...therefore, the "serenity" of the music contrasts with the lyrics and comes to light...Pink Moon!

"You've never listened to a record by Husker Du" --> I've worn out Zen Arcade, my clever friend! ... "I can give credit to lyrics if I like an album musically at most, but if a Rock record (like this one by Afterhours) is weak, what do I care about the lyrics (even rhetorical, as some say) by Agnelli?" --> That's your limitation, I'm sorry for you! Just listen to instrumental music then! ... and those "some" you mention only confirm the fact that you're BIASED. If you don't have YOUR own opinion on Agnelli's lyrics, you should have the humility to KEEP QUIET!

One is not born "learned"... "derivative-ness" is physiological!... let's take Bill Evans as an example... from his "school" emerged various Hancock, Corea, and Jarrett... in turn, these same artists have created their own schools... it's natural, logical... it has nothing to do with it, but I would like to recommend a splendid album to everyone, it's "Restoration Ruin" by Jarrett... it's a FOLK album!... following in Dylan's footsteps, the young Keith produced this little gem, forgotten and undervalued.

"of the series: musically they have little to say, better to focus attention on the lyrics" --> I hope I've clarified your thoughts. This sentence is a hypergalactic idiocy!

I just wanted to add this... if you want experimental music, listen to Faust, Soft Machine, Pere Ubu, etc... NOT AFTERHOURS!

Listen, wall of sound, as usual you don’t understand what I’m saying... I’ll repeat, and I’ll be clearer to accommodate your overloaded neuron: there are artists who CAN BE EVALUATED considering only the musical aspect (“CAN” is different from “MUST”)... there are other artists for whom the aspect of the lyrics CANNOT BE OVERLOOKED... if you don’t consider the lyrics, say, in Bob Dylan, you cannot give a comprehensive evaluation of the work! This doesn’t mean that the music of these artists is awful!!!! I’m saying that if you don’t consider Manuel's lyrics YOU CANNOT EVALUATE THE ALBUM!... it’s like trying to assess Paolo Conte using the measure of Jarrett (I’m exaggerating to make you understand, at least I hope)... if you remove Conte's lyrics, you lose at least 70% of his charm... and I want to emphasize that PAOLO CONTE'S MUSIC IS GENIUS... don’t touch Conte or I’ll set you on fire!... got it, mister? Don’t put words in my mouth that I didn’t say!!!!! The beauty of this album is that, besides the lyrics, which are as stunning as usual (and it’s the first thing I did when I got the CD, READ THE LYRICS), the music and arrangements are amazing. The only “experimentation” is in “E’ solo febbre” where two different pieces were combined, the song and a modern composition (specifically “Dall’alto, a sinistra del Leccio”)... to finish, you were asking me about Eno... well, Eno's work is CENTERED on the musical aspect, being a musician (or a non-musician, as he likes to define himself)... Agnelli's work is centered on a mix of foreign-flavored rock and singer-songwriter style... and to return to De André... if you don’t consider the lyrics, what do you say about Anime Salve? Can you give a complete evaluation? Come on, it’s a trivial discussion in the end. Don’t be a taliban!

ahahah you don’t know what to say anymore, huh, you fool of a Lux? You throw around nonsense at a thousand, but you’ve gotten it all wrong with me... we’re talking about a group where the lyrics and the music are STRONGLY connected... if you don’t read the lyrics of the Afterhours, you can’t judge their work IN FULL... dissecting an album doesn’t make sense! It would have been different to talk about the STRICTLY MUSICAL aspect, say in Rock Bottom... or in Discipline... or even better in Before and After Science... but NOT HERE... it’s like you're hitting me with a rant about the musical banality of De André! Does such a discourse make sense? ...in my opinion, you’ve misunderstood the After... I asked you some time ago if you agreed to consider the After as “singer-songwriter rock”... but as I see it, you don’t read my posts... anyway, Husker Du have nothing to do with the Wall of Sound! I was talking about the type of production! But do you know what the Wall of Sound is??? Or are you just talking nonsense??? Ihope you haven’t misunderstood... I wasn’t insulting HD, for heaven’s sake! They’re awesome! Make an effort to UNDERSTAND what I’m saying... and I repeat, if you want to grasp what I milanesi ammazzano il sabato is about, you MUST READ THE LYRICS!!!!! If you take Quello che non c'è (the song) and slap a silly text on it, with the same music, it COMMUNICATES NOTHING AT ALL... if you’re looking for EXPERIMENTAL music, don’t go for the After and especially don’t JUDGE BASED ON THOSE STANDARDS! Otherwise, in the end, someone like Tom Waits, for example, would get massacred... the great Tom... I can already imagine "Rain Dogs is a derivative album, the arrangements are banal and empty, etc. etc."... for once, please respond without clichés!