but look at that strange coincidence, I was just about to forget the existence of these crap and yesterday in the car with my brother-in-law and my dear big sister I had to endure "you give love a bad name" and "I will always love you" or whatever the hell that revolting ballad is called, and as if that wasn’t enough, even a mastered concert of Ligabue (thankfully I had brought my trusty walkman with me)
Let's not exaggerate, come on, the album is a solid 4. It’s not like Donovan is the only one, thank God. And by the way, the Walkman hasn't been used in at least 15 years.
It's a practical gadget, super easy to use, spacious, without too many frills, comfortable, and aesthetically pleasing, and then I like to stand out from the crowd.
"it's a practical device, really easy to use," so is the iPod. "and besides, I like to stand out from the crowd" well, I can't stand this snobbery. if the song is at the top of the charts, then it sucks, if everyone is listening to that thing, it sucks, the smart one is me. stigrandissimicazzi
Let me understand: are we back to the usual discussion that this album has sold x million copies, that everyone knows that song, and therefore they are masterpieces regardless? Dude, how sad is that. Might as well add that mortadella is communist and prosciutto is fascist, just because that's what they say; the reasoning is the same. Do you like Bon Jovi? Good for you, give them 4 stars or even 20 if you want, but if you’re going to preach to others bringing up the same old tired clichés like objectivity, the "few cares," and various dogmas, don't expect applause, okay?
"I'm not saying that everything at the top of the charts is great, but it doesn't always suck either." You're right. In this specific case, Bon Jovi really does suck.
In the year of our Lord 1986: thus began the search for rot, for violence, for the Antichrist. In my little room, it rained blood as I pounded my fists and head against the closet. But when I stepped outside, I always found him stalking me with his foppish little songs, his poster in my sister’s room. I never wanted to listen to him, and yet despite that, when I read the headlines, the melodies came rushing back to me. This is why, bongiovanni, I will hate you for eternity. Bastard!
But take a stroll in your straw hat (good-naturedly, of course...)... That's why you think like that even today; maybe your head has taken too many hits. Look, the Eighties when metalheads had to prove they listened to nothing under Slayer are over. In fact, many of them were listening to this album secretly ;) And thank God, I listened to Slayer too...
But are Bon Jovi really that awful? I'm young and I only remember Have a Nice Day and Welcome to My Life which, okay, but from the comments, it sounds like we’re talking about Good Charlotte. In any case, I’m NOT going to listen to see if they’re as terrible as you say, I’ll take your word for it.
wait, listen to these 2 tracks, for example, then judge. We're talking about the '80s, the golden years of that kind of rock. The slow one that Danny linked you is already from the '90s and it's a whole different story...
I downsize my rating to a "terrible average of those years" and "if I were still in school, I could pretend to like them to hit on the naïve rock girls."
I used to do it too, also because at 14 I liked Have a Nice Day as well. But it never worked. Maybe because the girls were all into Guns, and I always admitted that I thought they sucked.
Gentlemen, are we not overdoing it a bit? I understand that in here the national sport is to tear apart the reviews of the most famous names, but all this ... come on ... I mean: don't you like melodic hard rock or AOR? Go comment on the reviews of the genres that you prefer! On the contrary, do you enjoy the aforementioned genres? Good, then I’m waiting to know, if this album is a 1 (which means the worst in the genre, according to you), which bands have written songs WAY better than Livin' on a Prayer, for example ... and in general the albums immeasurably superior to this one, to the point that those deserve the maximum rating and this one the minimum. There you go.
As you can see, I give this album a 4, because I like it but I'm not crazy about them, although I do appreciate them (I'm obviously talking mainly about their golden period). I consider other groups from that era and the same genre to be globally better, perhaps, but to give this record a 1 would be quite a stretch... unless you haven't cleaned your ears in years...
Alright, let’s expose ourselves. If I'm in the car and the radio plays "You Give Love A Bad Name," I turn up the volume and sing the chorus without shame. Then... what can I say, it's not the history of music, I just watched the video again and they are terrible (how much were they spending at the hairdresser?) even though Richie Sambora's tackiness didn’t leave me entirely indifferent...
tedious wannabe snobs. It was about pop rock. You always make the same mistake. You compare this music to supergroups and then you spread your one-star ratings as if there were no tomorrow (even on the review which is actually fine) and you’re just awful, disgusting radical chic snobs of my balls, die badly.
I may be strange, but the thing that has always seemed most surreal to me is the historical association of the AOR label with those hair-metal pop-rock bands. I mean: ADULT-Oriented-Rock for a group that during the time of the first real media bombardment (and it was the period of this album) was absolutely the favorite among girls or at least targeted an audience made up of about 80% teenagers, and I think that in the '90s that percentage increased even more. So much so that even those who were 10 years old in 2000, I think, would remember 'It's My Life' if it played on the radio today. And let me be clear, I've never really digested AOR except for Toto, who were a thing unto themselves, and a few others, but it’s not that the equation glitzy sound = AOR holds true... AOR done right was serious stuff. Well-packaged to sell, sure, but saying AOR wasn’t the same as saying "chart-topping pop played with rock instrumentation." I challenge anyone to compare the first Boston or the first Foreigner to an album like Slippery... a different era, different sounds, different level, a completely different EVERYTHING...
Alright, I get it, they weren't ADULT at all, but still, I mean, I said what I think and I don't like Bon Jovi, just to be clear, but we need objectivity in our judgments; we can't just keep assigning double ones to all this stuff on autopilot. I mean, this is the attitude I had when I was 16. It's also true that hjhj and Danny are two kids who are more than enough, but yeah, let’s try to educate them, right?
There's no point in pretending to be flamboyant if you're like LALLO who likes it rough; you can say it, debaser gets along very well with homosexuals et similia.
True, in the pure sense they weren't AOR, but they weren't too far from that genre, if you exclude the image and the media impact and look at the substance. My speech was aimed at those who still listen to and appreciate '80s hard rock (in general, so let's include hair metal, street, chrome hard rock, melodic hard rock, AOR, pomp rock, and all these sub-genres...) and automatically place this album in the top slot.
In fact, you who seem reasonable to me didn't slap a 1 on it. I repeat, I don't have a strong preference for them either and I appreciate many other albums/bands from those years more, but giving it a 1 seems objectively senseless and unreal to me. It's like if I, who don't listen to death or thrash metal, went through reviews of these genres and started giving out 1s left and right. Moreover, the review is also well done, and the 1 given to the reviewer is equally nonsensical. Okay, I've bored you enough...
No, darling, the conversation is much simpler, it’s like this: "I know the record, it sucks in a terrifying way, I’m giving it the lowest score available." Not difficult. And what nonsense is this story about only commenting on things you like? Come on!
Yes, but often one associates the review with the album that even the reviewer doesn't like, as if it were the "fault" of having reviewed something you don't enjoy. For example, in Zerocanada, their review is cool, but I’d be shocked if I ever sat down to listen to that stuff!
Oh my, Lao, what seriousness in your comment... Anyway, by now they have become anagraphically AOR. Us kids who listened to them back then (whether we wanted to or not: it was a real bombardment and once upon a time not even the Almighty could save you: there was just radio and a bit of TV, and from there they would kill you... you couldn't take refuge on the web, on MP3s, on a hard drive full of indie stuff - which didn’t even exist by the way - or on streaming...) have become Adults. In short, they were a classic fun band. Well done. Those flashy bands you stood under just to get a glimpse of the hot girls, like KISS, like GUNZ... come on, you must have had a Fiat 128 Rally (or even a 127) with a cassette stereo!!!
It must be said, however, that the definition of AOR has always been somewhat ambiguous; in fact, some translate it as Album Oriented Rock rather than Adult. The '80s hair metal has certainly also drawn some influence from AOR, not exclusively from it, but there is a family resemblance.
Yes, their early stuff could have gone in that direction; Sambora was someone who could easily embrace an Arena-Rock formula and the like, but Slippery was conceived from the production stage as something that could resonate far beyond a typical AOR product. For me, we're much closer to what Aerosmith would have been during Permanent Vacation than to AOR: I mean - "rock," plain and simple, so polished and glossed up that it can be digested even by an audience almost fasting from rock. I won’t give it a 1 on the album, that would be excessive; after all, it must have made many a Tommy and a Gina dream.. it's just that when you hear certain stuff like "anti-Reagan", "Springsteenian in spirit".. let's just say, a good dose of laughter is something no one can take away from you..
Oh well, sure, I don’t know who could have said such nonsense! It's true, that little bit of aor attitude has definitely been lost here. Nevertheless, the fact remains that if you crank up Livin' on a Prayer in your headphones or in the car... well, it still has its damn effect, for sure...!!!
Hello Reguz and welcome to this sick world; I got to know this record and even somehow appreciated it in my distant youth when I too flaunted a long and flowing mane. Of course, regarding the continuation of your career, it might be better to keep quiet than to say anything; however, in my opinion, you have also done a decent job of reviewing. See you soon, dear one.
Maronna de marga, you are always so good, polite, and measured. Where have you lived until now, in an Amish community? Come on, at least get yourself a fake bastard.
Just think, kaiser, that I've always listened to Death Metal, goregrind, extremely hardcore music.... And yet I've never lost my healthy moral principles. Hello dear.
He listens to death metal after he's logged off. Before connecting and writing his nice-guy bullshit, de Marga listens to Dire Straits, "Romeo and Juliet," then he logs on and turns into a total sweetie.
Do you know what I'm listening to right now, dear friend RIBALDO? Sinister, pure Dutch death metal for purists. But that doesn't mean I lose my good and sacred manners. And then Dire Straits is written with a capital letter: Mark must always be respected. Hello beautiful boy...
Never liked him; back then he was even referred to as the heir to Springsteen just because they came from the same state (New Jersey), when the comparison is simply unthinkable in terms of talent and musical background.
Alexander, I no longer recognize you. Once, you used to engage in extensive arguments, even from a technical/compositional standpoint, about these questionable censures of yours...
Come on, Ginetto, there are three hundred of this crap, what do I need to argue about?! Tommy, Gina, and their shitty choruses?! The diabetes that makes you come to hear it? The attempt of half the losers on this planet to make out hard to "Never say goodbye"?
You don't understand a shoot of bamboo, do you? Bongiovanni, the idol of teenage girls during my adolescence, and with Alveis & co, they all fell into a state of ecstasy, and you even passed for a hard rocker. W Bongiovi and his awful records!
AOR was a product of the American record industry, a change in direction after the success of Boston's first album (1976). The genre is the offspring of the failure of Prog USA; many sought fame and dollars on the edge of hard rock and power ballads, with what remained of the previously unproductive instrumental complexity. Names like Gregg Giuffria, Mark Mangold, and Herb Schildt were forced to lighten nearly all the technical ballast. And while Starcastle made a sad karakiri in the transition, unfortunate yet remarkable bands like Aviary, Touch, and the fabulous New England are just three of the best examples of how to create hit singles without sounding trivial and ready for stadium rock singalongs. For me, Bon Jovi isn’t even AOR; in the '80s, Boston, Styx, and Kansas were already considered veterans. The white-collar executives wanted a handsome star with an easy chorus, and they found one, and thankfully, they didn’t create any clones. I still maintain that the best albums, both at the end of the '70s (the musically peak period for the scene) and in the '80s, came from second-tier bands, including certain excursions by well-known names like the two albums from Streets featuring Steve Walsh. Exquisite stuff that made Bon Jovi feel like a side dish, lacking only that image which often transformed mediocrity into billion-dollar idols in the '80s.
Well... "lack of image"? The white collars??? What white collars! There were millions of teenagers back then who wanted to enjoy simple music while watching handsome guys/girls... All of this needs to be contextualized in the '80s... Bon Jovi were part of that mega media phenomenon that included Madonna - Springsteen's Born in the USA - Michael Jackson - etc. The bands you mention were definitely out of the mainstream.
There were others in the BonJovi family, or rather, Bongiovi, and with a huge stroke of luck in the American music biz allowing the scion of the house to hit it big almost immediately. And then allow me, Geeno, to compare Michael Jackson, on stage since practically birth, to an '80s marketing move that ended up with a Springsteen-like comparison just to squeeze the tube until the end. This will be what the masses wanted to see and hear, but in the end, it’s always about the music that matters. Nostalgia can be all around, memories included, but it can't always be the weighing scale. It’s always the quality that counts; I was 20 back then and I had fun, but you can't lump everything together. I could distinguish in quality, and I wasn't the only one.
Sure, I agree: what does Bon Jovi have to do with quality? In the mix, I included all the '80s mainstream, but it's obvious that not all of them are comparable. For example, during the same years, there was a sumptuous Prince with Purple Rain or the respectable U2 with The Joshua Tree. Anyway, I don't think Bon Jovi was a marketing operation... they were just totally lame. So much so that, after thirty years, they're still out there doing lame concerts.
I understand, maybe my idea of a rock “truzzo” is an Iggy Pop in a leather jacket, stiletto heels, and fishnet stockings, or a Lux Interior in an embroidered thong. Strictly ‘80s. You definitely know this, but does Bon Jovi still go on stage wearing a zebra-striped tank top and freshly touched-up highlights from a mega team of hairstylists?
I agree, Barra, and speaking of excursions by big names, Power by Kansas is not bad at all! I don't know Walsh's Streets, at least I don't think so, so I'll check it out. However, I'm not sure if Giuffria was pure AOR; it seems more pomp to me. AOR were Journey, Survivor, Foreigner, the Toto from Isolation, to name the most famous. Then there’s a myriad of bands like the great Strangeways, partly Giant, Bad English, Alliance, Balance, the debut of Dare and Michael Bolton, Cannata, Drive She Said, Fortune, FM, J.L. Turner, Le Roux, Night Ranger, the supergroup Phenomena, Signal... etc.
Coming off the failure of Crimes in Mind, Walsh made his comeback in Kansas bringing along bassist Billy Greer, who is still in the band, and a series of tracks that formed the backbone of Power, that revamped heaviness with Steve Morse replacing that unsung hero of the six-string called Mike Slamer. Giuffria, after practically inventing Pomp with the unforgettable debut of Angel (1975), would move to AOR in the '80s, first with the band that bore his surname, and then with House of Lords, always achieving great results and featuring excellent vocalists. The scene was vast and filled with talent, but to highlight that magical end-of-'70s period, I recommend a quadrilateral of self-titled albums: Aviary, Touch; New England, and Straight Shooter—little recognition upon release, but I’ve never stopped listening to them.
Nice lineup, Barracuda, but Starcastle are more Yes clones than AOR, I’d say. And... do you remember Ram Jam, J. Geils Band, Sad Cafè, Far Corporation? Those were the days.
Yes, yes, but I know and appreciate both Giuffria and House of Lords very much... but these are already hard rock, I would say, melodic but hard rock. Pure AOR for me is made by the bands I listed earlier, for example.
Damn, I meant to comment on the first day it was released, and then I completely forgot… A masterpiece album, which has left an indelible mark on my youth thanks to my sister who is 6 years older than me, who made me listen to it until I was inoculated. Every note I've listened to in the last 28 years has been just a quest for the same emotions this record gave me. The only advantage I recognize from being bald is that if I had had hair, I would have styled it like Bon Jovi in the video for Wanted (Dead or Alive).
My viewpoint is always respectful of every musical genre, not only because tastes are personal and it’s not right to criticize them, but because I firmly believe that almost every genre has its masterpieces, objectively speaking. Therefore, it is not by imagining a critique of AOR - adult oriented rock, a genre that many (myself included) would place below other musical expressions - that one should judge Slippery When Wet, a very well-crafted album that deserves to be assessed within its context. I state, however, that within its own genre there are better artists and better, more original albums: Eagles and Journey, Toto and Boston, Doobie Brothers and Bob Seger, Steely Dan and Kansas, Chicago and Little River Band, depending on tastes and inclinations... American rock, in general, boasts dozens of excellent artists, objectively more passionate and authentic than the good Bon Jovi, who suffers from polished productions and the obsessive search for chart-topping singles, which forces him to constantly temper any impulse that goes off the rails. Can I say a heresy? Kiss are more rock and roll, for goodness' sake…
Well, saying that the Eagles did the same kind of stuff as Bon Jovi... hmm... for the rest, I agree with the point about respect and objectivity when commenting on albums of genres different from one's own tastes, it's the same discussion I was having earlier.
I agree with the part of Chicco's reasoning that each genre has its masterpiece, including music for cartoons. And tastes are personal; it's not fair to criticize them. But Debaser is the antithesis of all this; it’s a site where listens like this are criticized, even denigrated. I gave this record five stars just for the sake of provocation, in case that wasn't understood. I’ve never dreamed of going to a BJ concert, nor have I ever given them a cent for their CDs, etc. But this kind of crap, just for the sake of... I don’t like it. However, I also notice that older users, while criticizing harshly, argue with names, genres, and solid reasons. Then the kids come along and just throw crap around. This means nothing... I throw crap too and I’m no longer a kid...
Every genre has its masterpiece. SANTE words. That’s why I get pretty pissed off every time here, and even elsewhere, I have to read reviews and mockery, insults and whatever else directed at great artists, all in the name of what is, let’s face it, a damn COMMONPLACE. Michael Jackson, just to point out what I consider the most glaring example. On MJ, another glaring mistake is often made, another commonplace that many fall into: mixing his work with his private life and thus judging him as crap from every angle. More superficial than that… Let’s add that these people, often young folks but not only, shoot these little judgments with absolute and disdainful certainty, without realizing at all how close they are to a form of “life” comparable to fly shit.
They were among my first teenage passions, perhaps my very first favorite band not inherited from my older brother's tastes (at the time, I was also listening to U2, his great passion), in short, my first musical choice made personally. It was the early years of high school and I wore this album (along with New Jersey) out; it kept me company during those hot Sicilian summers chasing girls and forbidden dreams. Over time, I drifted away from them, from this way of handling music (and understanding it), and now I look at Bon Jovi and realize that their dimension belongs to my past as a naive kid, and for that reason, I can't hate them. Their music remains "questionable" to me, but I place it alongside many little "questionable" gems that supported my childhood and adolescence, like skeletons in a closet that you show to no one but yourself (U2, R.E.M., Michael Jackson, Madonna, and Bon Jovi were my go-tos), but when you do, you smile, and that’s enough for you.
hjhhjij in fact, the REM were also part of this, in the sense that in the 80s, with Losing my religion and the related album, they went overnight from indie or college music, as it was called, to the mainstream, to the masses, to global success. And there were indeed Madonna, Springsteen, Michael Jackson, Bon Jovi, U2, REM, and I personally add Prince, Police, Eurythmics, Billy Joel, Dire Straits, Sade, Van Halen, Huey Lewis & The News, Beastie Boys, Def Leppard, and Guns N' Roses. This was the real melting pot of the 80s. Where everything became pop, whether hard rock, college, or plastic pop. When you made it to the charts worldwide, you entered the mainstream, meaning white-collar music as I mentioned earlier (I hadn’t heard that expression in maybe twenty years). By this, I mean that it’s not about the quality of the product; it’s about the charts, the global impact. So yes, even the REM became pop while maintaining an extremely high quality.
The fundamental difference is, and I was there in those days on Earth, that Madonna was crap (and she has never stopped being crap) while REM were not.
Yes, but then, in a SECOND moment - the one when the records were passing through your hands - theoretically, you could distinguish between the GREAT pop (Prefab Sprout, EBTG, Orange Juice, Style Council, Scritti Politti, Tears For Fears, the early Level 42, Prince, which is a whole other story), the mid-level pop or anyway clearly derivative (Boy George, who was mostly torn apart for everything but the music, but in his mediocrity he knew how to play the game, and I’ll include the Spandau too, who yes, were so polished and glamorous and all that, but after 25 years they suck less than others) and the disposable pop where Madonna has actually been an exception in terms of longevity, because she always managed to play the scandal card and anyway, no one could have thought that after thirty years pop would have been reduced to a level such that today we have people copying Madonna's poses from '84.
In the '80s, they were always "indie," but more importantly, they were always able to produce great records. That's practically what Silas said very briefly.
wait, wait... hold on everyone, there’s even someone here who remembers Sandra Cretu... no, I don’t know if I’m making myself clear: SANDRA CRETU. I mean, we're talking about something nothing short of EPIC... come on, unbelievable... Sandra. Well, what can I say, Sandra was quite the club queen, maybe calling her "one hit wonder" would be a bit harsh for someone who, I believe, is still active, but she was pure club pop, very plastic... I honestly don’t know what her fame is like now, and I couldn’t really give an in-depth judgment... I only remember her for Maria Magdalena and the cover of Big In Japan, not to mention those unbelievably glossy videos; everything else is a blank slate...
But stop it, Lao, I remember it very well too, and not just because of Maria Magdalena ;;-) ... and if that wasn't (musical) garbage... But then why not mention the Pet Shop Boys? Or Duran? Now in which recycling bin would they go? Then you put Prefab Sprout with Boy George??? P.s. Hihiiihi yes, Losing is from a year after the end of the '80s. Given that twenty-five years have passed, I went with my gut. Anyway, R.E.M. for example, with the song Stand, were already part of '80s pop. Then that Madonna was crap and R.E.M. weren't, I don't think anyone said otherwise.
Sandra Cretu is my latest discovery; after the first 2-3 albums (pretty much disposable, I would say), in '90 she released an album that I find very, very nice and well-done, "Paintings In Yellow," for which I’m preparing a review.
But look, geenoo... it seems to me that I distinctly distinguished between Prefab Sprout and Boy George... if you read it again, maybe you'll realize it. And Sandra, well, who remembers her... honestly, it's not like I listen to that kind of pop... never heard one of her albums in full... never actually HAD one of her albums, more than anything. As far as I know, after those two or three little songs she could have done something completely different.
Skeletons in the closet? And what should one be ashamed of? U2 up to Achtung Baby (with gems even in Zooropa) have produced masterpieces in their genre. I don’t need to say anything about the value of R.E.M. (even though I’ve personally listened to them little, just a few things), Madonna, Jackson, and Bon Jovi are masters in their own right... I don’t really see what the problem is! Before Queen, in middle school, I listened to Malinconoia by Masini, can you believe it? There’s good music everywhere and in every genre; the things to be ashamed of are something else...
Mine was a comment with a subtle irony underlying it. As for my musical culture, I now consider them to be pleasant (and important) skeletons in a dusty closet of memories, a closet tightly shut that I will never throw away. I hope the meaning of my reflection is clear.
oh it’s you who talked about questionable skeletons in the closet to smile about today... not that the irony was really caught! Better this way, anyway. Hi there!
It's one of the top albums of the Eighties. You can’t live on Pink Floyd alone, with their socially conscious music, hermetic lyrics, and expect that behind the music there’s always expertise, authority, anger, or commitment (something I like if you check my avatar). Rock 'n' roll is also about clearing your mind while singing You Give Love a Bad Name, and the beauty of life is being able to indulge in diversions. Then again, de gustibus, of course. Even Bon Jovi, in their own way, have made history in American Rock.
I don't understand, though, why on metal sites Bon Jovi are treated quite well while here they are absolutely reviled. Honestly, I would have expected the opposite...
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And thank God, I listened to Slayer too...
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