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Forget Ligabue. Tell me another one who does concerts and you get yourself a new stereo instead of him. Seminale.

So, as you can see, you don't budge an inch, I don't budge an inch. You're messing with me.

The only misleading statement is yours, since you claimed that Corgan himself said he was inspired by Shields (who, as far as I know, wasn't playing with Spaceman 3). Now, if you want, you can complain that I acknowledge Corgan's nonsense that you brought up to support what you say, but leave aside the rest of the discussion; you brought the MBV into it. And Star Power is a riff? The Star Power from '86, when, as you yourself claim, Psycocandy is from '85? The Cocteau Twins, with more distortion and dreamy vocals, which you completely ignored? The point was actually extremely simple; I'm surprised you didn't catch it: an album has certain characteristics regardless of when it was released, so whether you like it or not, if more distortion and dreamy atmospheres give me shoegaze in the Pumpkins, there's no reason this reasoning shouldn't apply to other bands—unless one wants to attach noble influences to a band that has often indulged in some decidedly trivial pop, "forgetting" to mention less noble and far more obvious influences than Shields or prog. As for the rest, I know too that SY have nothing to do with it, just like the Pumpkins.

Sorry to point out a detail: the guitars of Sonic Youth have tons of feedback and reverb, technically they are not different from those of Valentine. But look, they don't go on the vocals; in fact - without the vocals, SY would lose a lot. The shoegaze style is purely a stylistic choice, that's why I say it's just a means to achieve a sensation and an effect.

In the sounds, I disagree with you, precisely because I don't hear the typical "mush" of shoegaze. With the SY, you've kind of let me down; music is music. If certain elements are present in A and B, A can be from 40 years ago, and the music is the same. Anyway, let’s cut to the chase. If you feel it, you feel it; if I don’t feel it, I don’t feel it. It doesn’t seem like there’s much point in continuing since neither of us is budging an inch, and besides, talking about the Pumpkins doesn’t exactly excite me... I've said it, for me the Pumpkins are far from essential, and I believe they'll find their rightful place in history, assuming they haven't already: a good band and often excellent, capable of stepping outside the typical sound of their time and offering something genuine, even if not always successfully, and especially able to renew themselves without clinging to past successes. Anyway, these discussions were had many years ago about Echo & the Bunnymen (whom I adore), they were supposed to be THE wave group, so elegant and introspective :) Nobody cared much about The Feelies, except for a few covers, and it’s really nice to hear them mentioned because they are worth their weight.

Well, album of the year, take it easy - I have my colder, my healthy everyday joydivisionish slop, and I hold onto it tight :)

Nice album, even if it’s not really my kind of music. But beautiful is beautiful.

Honestly, I believe that the link between popularity and value is often diametrically opposed, especially in the last 20/25 years. It’s still interesting that, not finding this album a masterpiece like so many others do, I should refrain from commenting. The only response one can give is "don't write reviews if you don't want comments." But you were right to specify; among the albums you mention, I don't consider half of them essential, except for the Beatles. U2, for example, made great albums early in their career, and Joshua Tree is just decent, at least for me. And this is the difference: I express my opinion without forcing anyone, and I may even argue passionately, while others here try to impose their view as the only possible one, and heaven forbid you touch their toys.

Maybe you've missed a few posts, but various people haven't given this album its fair share of praise and the title of masterpiece. Right up here, another 3. In other places, different people don't appreciate the album. I imagine it's me posting with different usernames.
My time on debaser is currently good, with a few reviews averaging over 4.50. But it's me voting for myself with different usernames; it's obvious.

Watch out, I never talked about "copying." No, then I'll end up with this in my ass too in about 3 posts, at least. Soon it'll come out that I said that a high Chamberlain attempted to attack the Pope.